Hello everyone! My first post to the group. I live in zone 4B Wisconsin and am trying to get more into rose breeding. I have been struggling to find a good seed parent for some of the crosses I want to make. Most of the hardy cultivars seem to be great pollen parents but do not set seed regularly ( Cherry Frost and Above and Beyond come to mind). Does anyone have experience with Madame Plantier as either a seed or pollen parent? I am growing in extremely sandy soil so even the most vigorous of roses are slow growing due to low soil nutrients - except rugosa which is a garden thug here - I regret planting it on its ability to spread alone! Thank you in advance for your thoughts! For reference, I am using Kordes and David Austin roses overwintered in pots for pollen/seed parent as well.
Doesnât appear that it would be a good/easy seed parent.
HMF doesnât have many descendants and the only picture of a hip says it was the only one of the whole plant
I agreeâIâve never seen hips set on âMadame Plantierâ. It also seems to be misclassified as an alba; others have said before that it seems more like a hybrid China with possible Noisette ancestry, which makes some sense, and would also help to explain its sterility. Itâs a wonderful rose otherwise.
Some of the true albas would be a better bet as seed parents, if they might work instead.
Stefan
Thank you everyone! I appreciate your thoughts and feedback! I will have to keep researching good seed parents with cold tolerance.
Thereâs a couple references on these forums about William Booth being good for seed that are easy to germinate. Downside being many of the seedlings pick up the sprawling habit but that may not be too big of an issue if you were looking at Madame Plantier.
It may be interesting to look at what roses are grown in cold countries. Find nurseries in Finland, Sweden, Norway, âŚ
This is an article about rose growing in Finland. https://ruususeura.fi/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Joy-P.-OF-ROSE-TRADITIONS-AND-TRADITIONAL-ROSES-IN-FINLAND.pdf
Theyâve a rose thatâs been planted for centuries in Finnish country gardens. Tornedal roses. "Tornedal" Rose
Some kind of full Cinnamonea rose.
Did some additional searches online. Plantasjen is a plant wholesaler in Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Finland). They have an assortment roses they sell for outside. This selection is probably reasonable cold hardy and worth browsing through: Roser - Kjøp hos Plantasjen | Plantasjen
You can use the translation function in Chrome (if you use that browser) to easily find your way on this site.
Thank you for your help with these fantastic recommendations! I have reviewed the information and ordered a few cultivars that I think should be promising. Was going to do Polstjärnan for its hardiness but it seems many people have struggled to get it to set seed reliably. We will see what comes of it all! The winter blues are setting in and I am looking forward to spring.
hello,
i understand that madame plantier might be hard to get hips off, but as itâs blooming right now, iâm trying anyway. do you have to prepare the bloom like you would a normal rose or do you just rub the pollen on the green âeyeâ? was a bit confused when having a look this morning.
With a rose that double, and button-eyed (with no anthers visible at any point in the flowerâs life), itâs absolutely fine to just dab the pollen onto the visible pistils without removing its own anthers. Sometimes itâs physically difficult to get to all of them with a fingertip, but that is the main downside. Since itâs relatively unlikely to set hips anyway, any pollen âcontaminationâ should be minimally problematic, and you will be lucky to get seed whatever the pollen source.
Stefan
Considering itâs ploidy, my first experience with germinating Cherry Frost o/p seeds was fairly easy but the seedlings were weak and stagnated in vigour and growth. I may try again at some point to test another batch before making more conclusions.
hey, i wanted to mention that my above and beyond set a few hips this year, and my local rose garden, which has about eight or so of them, also had a couple or a few hips on each. so it might be worth keeping an eye out.
This is only a guess. Maybe using Rugosa pollen on your Madame Plantier could produce a hybrid that sets seeds readily, and you could later on lessen the Rugosa genes by using the hybrid pollen on Madame Plantier seed parent? Rugosa pollen seems to have a reputation for taking to everything. The Rugosa genes would give extreme toughness and cold tolerance, as well as beautiful scented flowers, but would need to be diluted through hybridisation to lessen the Rugosa invasiveness.
I used some Rugosa pollen recently, as part of a mixture of other rosesâ pollens, and the two different roses I pollinated made good hips and seeds. It might not have been the Rugosa that pollinated them, time will tell and I would be happier if it was some of my more delicate roses, but I suspect I will end up with a lot of Rugosa hybrids (first generation that I still wouldnât trust in the open ground).
I also read somewhere recently, might have been on this forum, that hybridsâ pollen is more effective and has pollinated other roses that have previously failed to set seed.
Given the virulence of Rugosa pollen, I am surprised that hybrids havenât happened in your garden as they do in nature.