Madame C

Okay I have finially got both because those where the only roses that I have always wanted but never got. And I got the real Cecile Brunner, not the Spray type. Although I got them not for the breeding program, I just want to hear from people who have used it in their breeding program, specifically with minis. I know that there were a few hybrids from Ralph Moore that were very stunningly beautiful. Enrique

Hi Enrique

I’ve had Perle d’Or for two years now and find it very floriferous, especially in the heat. For me it hasn’t set any op seeds, and it’s surrounded by diploids. This is in a year when I got several very unexpected op hips and seeds. I checked again, and there was nothing. Posts, on this forum I believe, indicated that Perle d’Or was fertile, whereas Cecile Brunner was not. That’s why I got it. HMF shows many descendents for CB, and very few for Perle d’Or, primarily with one or two crosses. keep us informed of your success, or lack thereof with these two.

Perle d’Or has produced some offspring for me, usually using it as a pollen parent. (It produces seed only occasionally) The results have been mediocre at best, and I have abandoned it as a parent.

Cecile Brunner will set seeds with some pollens, but the number of seeds are low, and germination isn’t great. All first generation offspring of CB and other repeat bloomers have been once-bloomers. I’ll not likely pursue it further.


Paul, I have a Perle d’Or x McCartney Rose cross (heaven knows what THAT will result in!) that has set seed and should be ripening in a few weeks. I’m curious what you crossed Perle with and what not-so-good results you got. Perle is pretty disease free, heat tolerant and floriferous here in the desert and I was hoping she’d pass those traits on to her offspring.

A dozen years ago I raised seedlings from ‘Perle d’Or’ crossed with whatever I had blooming. One odd little thing with a mossy bud, and numerous (from Moore’s ‘Goldmoss’ as pollen parent) that were horribly prone to mildew, rust and blackspot – sometimes altogether.

One seedling of unknown paternity looked like a single-flowered ‘Old Blush’, but with two obvious differences. The flowers faded a bit rather than darkening with age, and they were very fragrant. I got anxious and planted it out too soon. And soon it disappeared.

I don’t recall having any difficulty getting seeds from ‘Perle d’Or’ (Mission Viejo, CA where the summers are HOT!). I put the seeds into a container with some barely moist soil in the fridge and forgot about them. Eventually they were rediscovered, a couple just beginning to sprout. The rest came up after a few days of warmth.

I’ve used Perle d’Or both in my current location (MS Gulf Coast) and my previous location (north AL). Results have been similar in both locations. I’ve never had a problem with PDO setting hips, either OP or with foreign pollen. Germination has been another matter. I’ve never tried to germinate OP seeds that I recall. I tend to get only a few germinations from each cross. A lot of the seedlings tend to lack vigor or be deformed in some way. Quite a few of them will grow quickly at first and then fail and die for no obvious reason. On the other hand, PDO seems to accept pollen from a wide variety of other roses. When I moved, I left a bush full of hips from crosses with R. bracteata and Therese Bugnet. I had previously gotten a very vigorous seedling from Perle d’Or X R. bracteata that I killed by setting out just before a late spring cold snap. I still regret that. My current plant was just purchased last spring and was still in a container all year. The only pollen I tried on it last year was from Heinrich Karsch. I have three seedlings from that cross, one of which has a flower bud on it. I’m curious to see what the bloom will look like.

I’ve rarely used pollen from PDO on other roses. I’ve had trouble getting viable pollen. It only seems to work occasionally. On the other hand, the only seedling I’ve ever gotten from PDO that had buds resembling PDO was from a cross using PDO as the pollen parent.