I’m looking for a good rose with multiflora blood to use in breeding with miniatures. I came across the pentaploid ‘Waterloo’ (seedling of Seagull × Rosa multiflora ‘Nana’) on HMF. Can anyone share experiences with ‘Waterloo’ or suggest an alternative? Thanks in advance.
Rob,
Are you looking specifically for first-gen multiflora selections, or what? Do they have to be remontants, or would latent remontants suffice?
I would think, particularly for areas with RRD, something as cold hardy and alkaline intolerant as multiflora, but more resistant to the virus would be more beneficial.
Paul,
I was thinking 1st or 2nd generation remontant multiflora to combine with wichuraiana and rugosa descendants to combine hardiness and disease resistance for use with minis but didn’t think about RRD, as Kim mentioned. Back to the drawing board. 
Thanks guys.
Rob,
Have you looked at Abigail Adams or The Gift? Abigail Adams is a repeat-blooming hybrid multiflora. The parentage is The Gift x Sweet Chariot. Modern Roses is incorrect.
Andy
Scarlet Meidiland is a possible tetraploid that behaves similarly to a Len’s hybrid multiflora. There may be other possible solutions, as well.
Rob,
I would suggest ‘Rosy Purple’ for starters. What a great plant that is. Indestructible in my climate, with 100% Blackspot immunity. It does, however, get some Mildew, so you need to cull agressively for that in hybridizing.
I can supply pollen later in May, if you wish.
Thank you all for the suggestions. I’ll look them up and see what might work.
I can vouch for Rosy Purple. It’s one of my favorite Lens violet hybrid multifloras and one of the few I’ve retained here due to space. Violet Hood is darker and more fragrant, but Rosy Purple is beautiful, roots very easily, has quite fragrant new growth, flowers very well and is definitely fertile, at least as seed parent as that is the only way I’ve successfully used it so far. This is one of two seedlings which I retained as it was the more dwarf (at that time) with less chlorosis. It has already set a self hip so it should be somewhat fertile.
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One you might also consider is Pookah. LIke a more controlled, heavier flowering, darker colored Ballerina without the mildew and no chlorosis (here). It roots EXTREMELY easily. The only “stuck in the ground” cutting I’ve succeeded with on this hill was a spent flowering cluster which broke off while taking cuttings. I pushed it into the ground behind the plant where the dumb thing rooted all by itself. No hormones, no preparation, nothing, it just rooted and grew.
It really amazes me how roses that seem to be (or indeed are confirmed to be) so close to some diploid species can be soooo happy to thumb their noses at BS (such a dreadful scourge that it is in many gardens!!).
These two examples Paul and Kim show seem fabulous!!
I might be very new to all of this breeding biz, however I have confirmed other examples of this presumed BS “near-immunity” phenomenon, already in just a couple of years breeding small time in my tiny backyard with some R.multiflora (and other -diploid- species).
Another you might find interesting is Jet Flame. Tiny purple flowers, tiny foliage and microscopic hips on a largish, arching plant. This one flowers repeatedly, also.
My cutting of Art Deco seems to be taking off. It really is a true red hybrid multiflora – amazing. It has one part multiflora, two parts Ballerina, and one part of another Synstylae species. I believe Ballerina is something akin to Rosa multiflora/Edith Cavell, or some such similar idea. Art Deco is nice because it doesnt have the typical multiflora foliage either. I hope it is fertile x_X
Thank you for all of your suggestions. I’ve looked at the roses mentioned and checked out ploidy, multiflora blood percent and descendants. While looking at descentants of multiflora I noticed that Paul Barden’s ‘Jeri Jennings’ lists 12.5% multiflora blood. I grow this one and I love the color, bloom form, scent and in my garden it is disease free. I’ve not tried it as a parent yet but I’m guessing that it would be better tried as a pollen parent. I think I will go this route and see if I have any sucess using JJ pollen on very fertile minis like ‘Sequoia Ruby’.
Rob,
I’m pleased that you like ‘Jeri Jennings’, it is one of my all time favorites as well. In my climate, it has developed a propensity to Blackspot and so I have dropped it from my list of breeder hopefuls. It won’t set seed (never has for me) and its pollen is scarce and very limited fertility. However, don’t let that stop you trying! I have an orange/red/flame sibling from the same cross that is fertile if you want to play around with that one; I have a few plants of it propagated, I believe.
For that matter, I would seriously consider going back to ‘Trier’ for breeding into miniature lines. (The pollen parent of ‘JJ’) There is a reason that cultivar has been used a bazillion times in breeding, trust me. I still use it and I am seeing some very interesting results. I am currently working with/evaluating a number of crosses using it in conjunction with Rugosa hybrids, and some species. A most useful breeding plant, IMO. I hope you will consider it.
Paul,
I do love JJ. Beautiful rose and as mentioned healthy in my garden. I’m sorry to read that you are seeing some BS issues in your area with JJ. Keeping that in mind I’ll be selective in what I use the pollen on.
I would love to try your fertile orange/red/flame sibling from the same cross if you have an extra plant. Thank you for the offer. If you need my address again please let me know.
As for Trier, I think given my space limitations she would be too big here. I also prefer not starting at the diploid level but would rather have a fertile triploid, at least, to work with.
“I also prefer not starting at the diploid level but would rather have a fertile triploid, at least, to work with.”
Oh, then I don’t think you want to work with many of those Lens hybrids mentioned, because I suspect most are diploids. Kim? Do you know for sure?
I’d assume so, especially at the rate he mixed his own hybrids so readily.
“I know nooooothing!” (John Banner, Hogan’s Heros)
Actually, I’d imagine Lens worked extensively with diploids. Wouldn’t you imagine Mr. Bluebird is diploid, being an Old Blush self? (Robin Hood X Baby Faurax) made Violet Hood. (New Penny X Violet Hood) resulted in Jet Flame. Mr Bluebird X Violet Hood resulted in Sibelius and Verdi. I still have Violet Hood and Sibelius should anyone want pieces.
Though there is no listed parentage for Rosy Purple, I would imagine it’s out of the same line of breeding. If you research his hybrid multiflora and other species lines, you’ll see he used Ballerina extensively. There’s nothing in any of them to point to anything other than diploids, unless some odd mutations occurred, but I doubt there were many, if any.