In the planning stages for another line for next season. I’m hoping for a couple names of excellent deep purple tetraploids that are smaller in stature and repeat blooming. As always good fertility, diseases resistance and hardiness is appreciated. The potential parent will be used to develop a line using ‘Ruglauca’: (Rugosa #3 x R. glauca) x OP and some ‘Ruglauca’ seedlings with the goal of 1) purple blooms and 2) as close as I can get to glaucous-purple stems and foliage. I think the combo would be amazing. I’ll be using some of the information I learned in the ‘line breeding’ thread to move toward these goals. I did get some seeds this season from ‘Ruglauca’ x ‘Distant Drums’ and am excited about what may come from that. Not purple but a great color on DD.
I’ve grown Ebb Tide, Outta the Blue, Rhapsody in Blue, Night Owl, Purple Heart and Midnight Blue. The only one I have left is MB which I like a lot. The others were culled for one reason or another. I do have seeds from crosses between several of these listed that may provide something nice to work with. I’ll definitely try MB as the other parent in this line. Are there any other purples that I’ve missed that might work?
How about Carlin’s Rhythm it is not quite a dark purple but it has a great parentage. I have been told that it is fertile. It is repeat blooming. The flowers are only single. The major problem is that it does not seem to be available commercially. But you could probably get it from someone on the forum.
Or how about one of the gallicas. Tuscany Superb or one of the lesser known gallicas. You would be missing the repeat bloom but I think they would make an interesting crosses.
Lastly you could use some of the spinosimias like William III but since your plant is part rugosa this would probably lead to a genetic dead end. Apparently when rugosas cross with this group from what I am told they produce great plants but the plants tend to be infertile. PLUS REPEAT BLOOM WOULD BE MISSING.
I would try my first suggestion. I have not worked with the plant, but considering the parentage and considering it was breed by our own Kim Rupert it should be outstanding (He seems to have very high standards when it comes to what he puts out on the market). So I think it would be worth any hassle in obtaining. It is a plant I have put near the top of my wish list.
Maybe Wild Rover. I dont know.
Thank you, Adam! Much appreciated. I’ve emailed both Cliff Orent at Eurodesert and Burling Leong at Burlington Roses to see if they have Carlin’s Rhythm in stock. I’m sure they both have material from which to propagate. Rogue Valley Roses lists it currently in stock. Janet Inada, owner/operator of Rogue Valley is a love and great to deal with. Give her a shout.
Link: www.roguevalleyroses.com/product_info.php?products_id=964
Adam,
Thank you for the ‘Carlin’s Rhythm’ suggestion. I wasn’t familiar with that one and checked HMF. After reading the profile I’m thinking that although not a purple, the qualities described for this one could be perfect for what I’m looking for. The lineage is impressive and would only strengthen my ‘Ruglauca’ seedling’s rugosa and glauca lineage. Disease resistance and hardiness should remain strong, it’s fertile, and the repeat bloom trait should be strong. I’m liking this one…I could always bring deep purple in later. I appreciate your other suggestions as well. Losing repeat bloom for a couple/few generations is a negative for me if I have repeat blooming alternatives.
Thanks for the ‘Wild Rover’ suggestion Jadae. It has great color and the orange blend with scarlet edges and lemon yellow reverse of its ‘Spice of Life’ parent is VERY interesting. ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ didn’t have great disease resistance in my garden and I wasn’t thrilled with the plant but ‘Wild Rover’ is a definite possibility. Thanks again for the suggestion.
Kim, I really like what I’ve read about your ‘Carlin’s Rhythm’ and will be looking to obtain one for myself. What can you say about fragrance on this one? Thank you for the link to Rogue Valley Roses. Great to see that it is on the market. Good luck with it.
Thanks for the recommendations guys!
Link: www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.44489
If you like the idea of Gallicas maybe one of Paul gallica hybrids will work. Many of these are also available at rogue valley. As far as which one is best for breeding maybe Paul can answer this.
Thanks on the info on the availability of Carlin’s Rhythm.
Here is a page with Pauls work available at Rougue Valley many are gallica hybrids and some have repeat. Several have the color you are looking for. I do not know how well some of these breed however. I know I am planning to get Unconditional Love, Pam’s Choice and Incantation either this year or in the near future for my own work.
Link: www.roguevalleyroses.com/rose_list.php?search_id=&class=&height=&growth=&color=&bloom_size=&bloom_type=&shade=&fragrance=&disease=&rebloom=þs=&zone=&hybridizer=Paul%20Barden&date_range=&text=&view=&show=&page=1
Thanks for the link to Paul’s roses at Rogue Valley Roses Adam. ‘Rook’ and ‘Fara Shimbo’ are definitely the range of purple I’m looking for. The picture of ‘Midnight Blue’ in the link below is exactly the purple I envision. I see that purple sitting amongst grey-ish leaves and stems with plum-purple overtones.
‘Midnight Blue’ doesn’t always look that purple but there are days when it does simply amaze me. I guess that’s why it was the one purple that I did keep.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.119449
You’re welcome, Adam and Rob. When buds are cut and opened indoors, I notice a sweet, dusty scent from Carlin’s Rhythm. It’s unusual for me to get much fragrance from single roses outdoors here. It’s just too dry and windy.
‘Carlin’s Rhythm’ has a strong fragrance in my experience. It is a very rich, deep magenta hue that is verging on a purple/lavender color. Very attractive, and sets seed like no tomorrow. I think it is worth exploring as a breeder, but be aware that it will tend to make singles.
I am doing a lot of work with ‘Midnight Blue’ these days and I’m very impressed by the color and quality of some of its offspring.
Of the seedlings I created from the Gallicas, only a few of them appear worth using for breeding, in my estimate. One of the ones I am currently very interested in breeding is a cross of (‘La Belle Sultane’ X ‘Dusky Maiden’) X ‘Midnight Blue’, a thornless, disease free seedling that sets seed readily. I will be evaluating the first crosses from this seedling next spring.
As much as I like ‘Tuscany Superb’, you will struggle to get anything very dark in color from it; the second you mate it with anything modern (to get remontancy genes started) you almost always end up with medium to deep pinks, some of them really dirty colors. You will also end up with a percentage of seedlings that suffer from badly formed/deformed flowers. If I had to start over with ‘Tuscany Superb’, I would be tempted to mate it with ‘Midnight Blue’ just to see what it does. When I started, ‘Midnight Blue’ was still years away from commercial availability. I’m certain I would have made that cross if I had the chance ten years ago.
Right now, I am much more interested in some of the seedlings I got from ‘Midnight Blue’ X (‘Orangeade’ X R. fedtschenkoana), the latter being a white Rupert seedling. These fedtschenkoana hybrids are just nutty, and nothing like any other roses I have ever seen. See link to HMF:
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.63200
Heh. I have nothing to suggest because Midnight Blue and Rhapsody in Blue are the bluest of the blues for repeat bloom. Thank you for a reason to look up the line breeding of Rhapsody In Blue.
Seed: Summer Wine (climber, Kordes 1985)
Pollen: International Herald Tribune
Cass, look at Blue for You, also. It is amazingly “blue” here. It doesn’t shut down in high like Rhapsody in Blue, and it is MUCH “bluer” than any of the Week’s “blues”.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.40525
Here’s a blue-ish seedling that derives from some of the bloodlines being discussed.
Parentage is:
(Midnight Blue x (Carlin’s Rhythm x self) X (Audrey’s Rose x (Joycie x Basye’s Blueberry)
Bet you didn’t expect to be hearing about ‘Carlin’s Rhythm’ from Australia!!! Don sent over some OP CR seeds and I can also add that the seeds come up VERY easily. I hope to incorporate these in my purple program as the years progress as well. So far they are slow growing but look nice and uniformly healthy. I’ve got ‘Commander Gillet’ OP seedlings (these come up like weeds… lots of little runty seedlings but there are one or two among them that looks to be quite strong), and OP CR seedlings and the first step I thought of was to bring these two lines back together before putting them out to some of the ones already mentioned here and others such as ‘Tuscany’, ‘Tuscany Superb’, ‘Sweet Chariot’, ‘Ebb Tide’, ‘Route 66’, ‘Scabrosa’, ‘Wild Rover’ (and the most awesome news is that today a seedling of ‘Wlid Rover’ x ‘Mutabilis’ germinated!!! first time I’ve ever got anythign with ‘Mutabilis’ to germinate 
), ‘Lavender PInnochio’, and ‘Ann Endt’ and my unknown (probably ‘Baby Faurax’) little poly.
Kim, ‘Blue for You’ is a terrible rose here… only have to look sideways at it and it spots and defoliates.
Oh yeah… almost forgot… the plan with Carlin’s Rhythm OP seedlings was also to put them to my OP 88-390 seedlings (see link for pedigree)
Link: i63.servimg.com/u/f63/13/33/54/62/88-39010.jpg
Jadae… ‘Wild Rover’ sets seed with everything and the seeds come easily. I have had a percentage of non-remontant bloomers from its OP seedlings. It needs to be matched with something with a lot of disease resistance because whilst WR grows pretty cleanly here (~75-85%, depending on the year) it’s OP seedlings don’t seem to follow suit very well… you need to raise a lot of them to find anything worthwhile.
Paul… Re you ‘Midnight Blue’ x ‘Tuscany Superb’ cross idea, ‘Route 66’ has a similar lineage to ‘Midnight Blue’ and I put ‘Tuscany’ pollen onto it last season and got a lot of seeds, however, I have not been able to get a single one to germinate using conventional methods.
Have a number of crosses from this season, listed in another thread, using Midnight Blue both ways and hope that something nice shows up from the lot. I agree with your view on MB Paul. It is a great rose. I’ve also been looking at some of your modern gallicas and really like what you’ve accomplished. You have some gorgeous gallicas.
Hey Simon, I’m glad you have CR seeds! I wish it was easier to get you cuttings or buds of it. My goal with that cross was to create a breeder, as it is with most of my crosses. When they create something nice and worth growing on its own merits, it’s icing on the cake.
Legacy (or whatever you want to call it) makes awful seedlings when used as seed. It’s nearly impossible to tell whether they’re selfs or not, so I stopped using its seed many years ago. It’s so pollen fertile, and it drops its pollen so quickly, it’s nearly always best to use it as a dad.
That’s too bad about Blue for You. It’s so far been totally healthy here, thankfully, and it continues producing those incredible, fragrant flowers no matter how hot it gets. Exactly what Rhapsody in Blue fails to do.
Paul on your Pam’s Choice. I love the color of it. Looking at the parentage I would assume it is not worth breeding from. Am I right in my assumption that The Lavender Pinocchio weaknesses carry through to further generations. I plan on getting this one either way basically because the color is so unique.
