Larger than normal

Every once in a while, I will get a “pod” that is about twice as large as its sisters. This is while the flower is developing, not after fertilization. Does anyone have any experience with these? Are they doubled chromosomes “pods”?

Henry, I think this is purely the result of having stumbled on a particularly fertile combination of seed AND pollen parent. The result is that many more ovules than usual are fertilized and the hips become very large. I see this all the time with particular crosses. Currently my ‘Abraham Darby’ has several crosses on it, including ‘Buff Beauty’ and ‘Crepuscule’. The ‘Buff Beauty’ hips are small and will contain only a few seeds, I expect, while the ‘Crepuscule’ cross has produced hips almost the size of small aples!


Paul, this is before the flower even opens.


On Rosa rugosa, I’ve noticed quite a bit a variation in size of the green hip (receptacle?) under the unopened flower buds. The larger ones are frequently twice as large as the smaller ones. Large size receptacles seem to be associated somewhat with weather during formation (cooler temperatures and rain favoring larger receptacles) and associated strongly with position (the central bud in a cluster being larger and sturdy branches producing larger receptacles). I’ve often wondered if size makes any difference when it comes to setting seed, but so far, haven’t noticed any.


Tom, I have experienced this with rugosas and other species rose hybrids. This has been a very cool and wet spring.

The one that I am most interested in is Agnes. I have never gotten her to set hips. When I found this twice the size receptacle, I removed the pollen and flowers. Three days in a row I added pollen. The first two were different tetraploid pollens. The third day I added mixed diploid pollens. Ten days later I sprayed with commercial hip set hormone. Now time will tell.

“commercial hip set hormone”

Is that the same as the hormone they use on tomatoes?

SunQueen, yes and no. There are 2 sprays for tomato. I use the one that contains cytokinin as kinetin. There is another that contains calcium - that is not the one I used.

Title: Apple shape changing possible with cytokinin and gibberellin sprays.

Authors: Martin, George C.; Brown, Dillon Sidney; Nelson, M. M.

Authors affiliation: Univ. of California, Davis, CA, USA.

Published in: California Agriculture, volumn 24, page 14, (1970).

Abstract: "Sprays of cytokinin were more effective than gibberellins A3 or A4/7 in improving fruit set and elongating apples. Applications of cytokinin (270 or 500 ppm) at petal fall plus 3 days were the most effective in increasing fruit set and elongation.

Today, the large Agnes pod has turned dark brown. Very disappointing.

Oh, that’s a shame, Henry. I hate when that happens! I have a Queen Elizabeth x Paul Neyron that was about 8 weeks old that, today, just started to turn black on one side. I was particularly excited about that one. Very disappointing. Is there a way to prevent that? Is it possibly from fungus spores getting into the hip?

Related to your original question, (and I’m new at this) I’ve thought there might be a correlation with lack of a receptical and lack of hip formation. Is this just me or is there known to be a relationship?

Ok, I bought the Cytokinin. First I brought the wrong one home. Bonide has 2 types of “Tomato and Blossom Set Spray” - one contains calcium and the other is cytokinin and they are both in IDENTICAL containers! Same color, same name, same wording on the label, etc and until you read the little print at the bottom with the ingredients, you can’t tell the difference. Bad marketing, huh?

Now, how do I use it? I assume I remove the stamens, then spray, then when dry, apply the pollen?

I have instructions at the following link:

The ten days after pollination is not set in stone. Let us know if you have better luck with a shorter or longer offset.


As with SunQueen, I too am quite new to hybridizing…so it comes as no surprise that Cytokinin is yet one more thing of which I have never heard before. Is this a fairly easy product to find? Or more than likely something obtained via mail order?

With regard to the pod/receptacle size…I have been wondering quite a bit about that during this season. I have read that Tropicana should be a fairly decent seed parent but had much difficulty in getting any pollen to set a hip this year. I probably tried about 8 different times this year and only one was successful (Tropicana x Our Lady of Guadelupe). After the first 4 attempts I began to look for larger pods, but that was like looking for a needle in a haystack with Tropicana. Now, on the developing Tropicana hip, I have quite a few exongenous seeds appearing while the hip itself does not appear to be swelling much at all…elongating perhaps…but the most noteable changes are really only the seeds that are beginning to appear. In cases with pods that are quite small to begin with, is it common for the majority of the seeds to be exogenous with little change anywhere else?

Michelle (I just realized you were RC Michellynn!) I got the cytokinin at ACE hardware. It’s Bonide Tomato and Blossom Set Spray, but read the small print. They are selling both types, one is Cytokinin and one is Calcium, and they look exactly the same.

Thanks SunQueen for the info…I will see if I can tack that down…I wasn’t sure whether you had picked up on the name change there or not,when I replied in the other thread here. :astonished:)

If anyone is having difficulty finding Bonide Tomato & Blossom Set Spray, you can purchase it on-line at:

for $5.95 for the 8 oz. spray or $12.95 for the 32 oz. spray.

Many of the products listed on-line didn’t specify the active ingredients. This one does:

Contains .00008% Cytokinin as kinetin, based on biological activity. 99.99992% inert ingredients.


I found some at my fave propagation supply store, Teufels. I think mine is Greenlight. I’d go check but it’s outside and it;s 130AM here lol. Was about 6 bucks for a large spray bottle.

Good info Cliff and Jadae! Thanks for sharing the tip.