It’s clean in my part of Oregon. However, some seedlings were horribly prone. In contrast, my most disease resistant seedling is from it.
I have two seedlings from Dortmund I can play with now. They are much smaller. I hacked back my big Dortmund pretty hard today. I needed the impetus and Paul’s comment gave me a good reason.
Did your disease resistant seedling come from Dortmund as seed parent Jadae?
Dortmund x Circus. It has foliage like plastic.
Love that! Is it red?
Yup. Red & dwarf. It sets seed en masse but they wont germinate. I finally went the route of pollen. This year I kept one Cherry Meililand x seedling. It’s watermelon pink with a white reverse single. I have Kanegem x seedling seeds in the fridge at the moment.
Those sounds like great crosses Jadae. I like Dortmund’s foliage and blossoms last a long time even in our high heat. What I don’t like about it is the lack of fragrance and I find the red fades to an unatttractive color to my eye.
I have a Dortmund x Lila Banks seedling I’m working with. It’s very dwarf so far. Attempts to use it’s pollen have failed, but it’s very young. just coming into it’s second flush now.
Yeah, the bland color is the major downer. That’s why Ive been using bright colored parents. I tried Gemini twice but it seems to keep rejecting it.
I love William Booth and have gotten beautiful and free flowering offspring of it. Out of a population of Hawkeye Belle x William Booth there were many very double gorgeous seedlings. Most were pink, at least one red.
Although the staminate parent of William Booth contains lots of double roses, alleles for single blooms may be masked and segregate and allow for William Booth to be from the reported cross. Am I missing a detail Paul why William Booth would more likely be a self of L83?
I love L83 for its health and hardiness, but it does grow slowly. It’s the rose I think of that fits the phrase “Slow and steady wins the race” I trust L83 still has a lot of other good offspring to come directly from it. Like others mentioned William Booth has a lot to offer. It is more vigorous and has nice red colored new foliage, is disease resistant, and has more glossy leaves.
Sincerely,
David
I’m curious as to the appearance of Hawkeye Belle x William Booth seedlings you speak of.
Can it be said that William Booth and L-83 are completely free of disease?
And do they pass this quality to their offspring?
I can’t speak for William Booth (he’ll have to speak for himself), but BL83 is not free of disease. The whole idea of a rose that’s completely free of disease is . . . pretty unlikely. Probably the best we can hope for is something like Knockout which gets very little blackspot and is not crippled by it. But it does get powdery mildew and probably other diseases.
Peter
I was speaking to Jeri Jennings who lives on the CA coast yesterday, talking about the South East and what a great testing ground for blackspot resistance it is. She said yes, and most things that don’t blackspot there either rust and or mildew in her garden in Camarillo.
It’s hard to have it all. The Teas, Chinas and Noisettes seem to be the best in general for both climates. Of course they don’t have cold tolerance and the range of colors is limited.
The best of the newest cold hardy disease resistant roses seem to have a limited range of colors and disease resistance is only fair and climate specific. It seems that is the best we can hope for.
Yeah, they do get a little blackspot- William Booth more than L83. In the shrub rose garden at the MN landscape arboretum all the Kordesii hybrids seem to get hit hard by spot anthracnose some years. I think the disease pressure has built up in that garden over the years and maybe there’s some strong races. It’s easy to confuse with blackspot.
Sincerely,
David
David, when somone (in this case, Hugh Skinner) grows about 50 open pollinated seedlings of ‘William Booth’ and nearly all have single flowers of not great quality, then I get suspicious about its parentage.
Dee, does L83 pass on disease resistance? It seems to have a good track record in this respect. The latest hybrid of it introduced, ‘Prairie Celebration’ (L83 x ‘Orangeade’), was selected because of its combination of good cold hardiness and outstanding disease resistance in the Canadian Prairie region. It will be interesting to see how it does in other warmer and more humid geographical regions. It’s not going to be a big seller though, since it only has single flowers.
For people not familiar with ‘William Booth’, in appearance it looks like ‘American Pillar’. Therefore, it is a good substitute for the latter cultivar in cold climate regions.
Why do the majority of the canadian hybridizers use old floibundas? Is there really a cold resistance difference in something like Livin Easy or Playboy as compared to Orangeade? Livin Easy is somewhat newer but there are numerous other post-1970s floribundas.
Paul, I still don’t understand why you are suspicious about the pedigree of ‘William Booth’ based on the open pollinated progeny that Hugh Skinner raised. ‘William Booth’ is a single rose and single is recessive to dominant. This would indicate ‘William Booth’ is homozygous recessive for this gene. ‘William Booth’ is tetraploid and most likely able to self-fertilize. Raising op seedlings and most of them being single is consistent with the possibility of self-fertilization. The few that are not single is evidence that at least they are the result of a cross pollination with some neighboring double-flowered rose. Sometimes the petals fold funny and don’t lay flat on ‘William Booth’, a trait also present in L83. Although the reported male parent of William Booth contains double roses, it seems many (most?) double roses contain masked single flower alleles and itself does not rule out the possibility of a single flowered offspring from a cross of L83 by that male advanced selection.
Paul, is there some information you know that I’m missing?
David
David, I’m not an expert in genetics like you. However, when ‘William Booth’ is selfed and in a population of 50 seedlings the ratio of single to semi-double seedlings is something like 48 to 2 it seems a bit much. Regardless, I think it is good to keep in mind L83 is very self-fertile like ‘William Booth’ is. Therefore, when L83 is used in breeding as the pistillate parent the flowers should be emasculated very carefully.
This is a quote from Roses-Canada, the news letter of National-Roses-Canada. If anyone is doing northern rose hybridizing, I strongly recommend that you subscribe.
"I obtained a hardier parent from my own tetraploid seedling from ‘Max Graf’, G49. From the cross of R. kordesii x G49 I selected L83. L83 combines great hardiness with repeat-bloom and blackspot resistance. It can be used as seed and pollen parent. It was released as genetic stock shortly after my retirement. From selected seedlings derived from crosses with L83 my successors named four: ‘George Vancouver’, ‘Marie Victorin’, ‘Jouis Jolliet’, and ‘William Booth’
Felicitas Svejda
Link: www.rosescanada.ca