Has anyone else been impressed that Knock Out might be useful for breeding with mosses, both prickle and crested types? I encountered them used in a shopping center landscape the other day and they actually looked quite good. None of the Flower Carpet roses they interspersed in the beds had any color, but were also full of orange-red hips as were the Knock Outs. Yes, I helped myself to a handful of K.O. hips, figuring I was actually helping their landscape service keep it better looking.
The small moss-like prickles on the peduncles (almost as you find on my early Pernetianas and Pernetiana-types like Pat Austin) and their lacy sepals immediately made me wonder what value they may offer for moss and crested improvements. Is anyone exploring in those directions yet? I only grow one moss, my namesake, but do have three “crested” types. I don’t have a K.O. but may have some self seedlings if they germinate. Those seeds are HUGE!
Although I haven’t made any direct crosses between ‘Knock Out’ and the crested moss types, last year I discovered a seedling of ‘Pearl Sanford’ X ‘Thrive!’ that had some of the lacier type sepals. Since it produced good hips and the germination test show great germination, I used it last year in crosses with Mr. Moore’s “Red Crested Moss”. There are several seedlings on their 3rd to 4th true leaflets now. I can’t wait to see if some of them produce the crested moss sepals.
I have a handful of seedlings from a (gemini x scarlet moss)xhome run cross that are happily growing in my basement. The seed parent was a nice red moss. Too early to see if any of them are moss types, but I’m planning on doing more of this cross this year.
That sounds like a great direction to pursue!! Rainbow Knock Out has been the most fertile for me and most of its seedlings, like itself, have a good number of modified thorns on the neck and hypanthium.
FYI, I’ve read that KO seeds are hard to germinate but I can report that KO x KO seeds are germinating fairly well for me. Hopefully you will have the same experience with your seeds. None of my Sunny KO x OP seeds have germinated yet.
I’ve tried for several years to get seeds from my KOs to germinate with no luck at all. It does sound like an interesting idea though. Maybe as a pollen parent KO would work better. I’ll have to try it that way instead this year and see if it germinates better.
I think that my germination tests described in the latest RHA news suggest that how the seeds are harvested and handled may make some difference to germination. I looks like achenes that had less chance to get woody do better. And nitrate may hasten germination even if not final yield. Right now I am running a third year of tests, including white out, KO, RKO, HR. But so far, that’s the best suggestion I can give. Pick earlier than you might think appropriate base on color. I believe Peter Harris has advocated this notion in the past, maybe 120 days in a warm climate is plenty to mature seeds in green hips…
These K.O. hips were turning orange and harvested and planted over two days last week. Hopefully, with the colder temps and the mouthful of rain we had today, something will germinate.
Most of the larger mosses are not reliable seed or pollen setters. I would think using something like Lady Moss, Gabrielle Noyelle, Scarlet Moss or Unconditional Love would be better choices. Fairy Moss works OK both ways, but isn’t as healthy as the previously mentioned ones, even in this climate.
I would love trying KO with Morcrest and my April Mooncrest. I don’t think Morqueencrest will ever flower in this climate. It’s the Queen Elizabeth X Crested Moss hybrid. It will root but is better budded, should anyone wish to try cuttings.
She can be beautiful. I’ve loved her since she was a numbered seedling in the green houses. Black spot can be an issue, as with all mosses. I didn’t have the room to put her in the ground, so I passed her on to a friend who has a coastal and a mountain garden. She can find the right spot for her where there won’t be the issues I experienced here in a very crowded pot ghetto.
She’s very well mossed and flowers as reliably as any modern floribunda here, with no special pruning required.
That could be my problem, Larry. I don’t usually pick my hips until some time in October when they turn orange. I’ll have to experiment and pick some earlier this year. Thanks!
I’ve never grown Moss roses, so apologies if mine is a dumb question, but isn’t the main point that the “moss” is glandular and aromatic? Do descendants of crosses with non-glandular prickly types maintain the odor?
They do to varying degrees. Some are intensely fragrant. There have been a number which had virtually no scent. The absolute worst are Rugosa X Moss crosses! What a disgusting stench they have! Rugosa morphs the resinous scent of the moss to a very moldy, “unclean” scent to me. Ralph used to ask what I thought of it, and I’d deliberately look to see what the cross was to make sure there was no Rugosa in it. He raised many which had dense prickles resembling mossing, but not possessing any of the scent glands. It appears that scent to the moss is one of desirable traits most who introduce mosses seek in their creations. So, yes, many smell, but not all.
Kim I crossed Moulin Rouge with the moss rose Laneii, the two offspring I kept, one was heavily thorned and mossed, once flowering,colour bright red but no perfume at all. The other had moderate thorning a big damask like scent, dark red with blueing and repeat flowering
Kim the mossing smelt like the new growths of a pine tree crushed, I said to a friend of mine rub the flower bud and then smell your fingers , she could n’t believe the smell came from a rose
That’s lovely Warren. Ralph’s Lemon Delight actually has a lemon element to the moss scent. I notice on the Fedtschenkoana mossed seedlings anything from Nobel Fir through Cedar, Spruce and into Pine. Each generation further from Fedtschenkoana alters the evergreen scent away from Nobel Fir. Most of them are reduced in intensity, also.
It would be good if we could breed a rose with scented foliage like Lemon Balm and when working amost them get this whoft of scent from the leaves as we work through them. Only dreaming .
Actually, Warren, those exist. Grandmother’s Hat has a wonderfully peppery-sweet cedar scent to the new growth, peduncles and sepals, which sticks to your hands as you handle the plants and lasts through a hand washing or two. Many Chinas have a similar sweet pepper scent, including Mutabilis, though they don’t stick to you nor scent the air in this garden as intensely as Grandmother’s Hat.
Eglantine and close hybrids possess that wonderful Granny Smith Apple scent which also sticks to you and scents the air when conditions are right. Many OGRs have scented new foliage, sepals and peduncles as do quite a few species. My favorite is still the Nobel Fir with hardwood fire smoke scent of Fedtschenkoana.