Kazanlik vs Ispahan | Damask Scent and Attributes

I’d like to start an old rose section of my garden with at least 1 Damask rose.
In South Africa, I have access to Ispahan, Paul Recault, Petite Lisette, Blush Damask, and Damascena Trigintipetala — which I believe is Kazanlik.

I’d like to attempt to make perfume/essential oil and rose water.
Currently I am deciding between Ispahan and Damascena Trigintipetala (Kazanlik).

Here are some things I have been able to determine but can’t confirm. If anyone with experience can confirm them that would be great!

  1. Firstly, can anyone confirm if Damascena Trigintipetala is actually Kazanlik? Or if they are two separate roses that happen to be closely related? From the videos I’ve seen of Afghan, Syrian, and Bulgarian rose fields, these all seem to look the same.

  2. I believe Ispahan is physically larger than Damascena Trigintipetala, and has more petals. It also does not open as far as Damascena Trigintipetala.

  3. I also believe besides the size difference, Damascena Trigintipetala is able to set larger oval hips while Ispahan has an extremely low success rate with hips, but judging from some of the threads here it can be done.

In terms of the rose scent, what do Ispahan and Damascena Trigintipetala smell like? Which produces a stronger scent? And which produces the most scent for perfume/essential oil production? Ispahan looks lovely, but Damascena Trigintipetala would allow me to make rose hip jam or tea without the need for also getting Rugosa Alba.

Or are there any recommendations for Paul Recault, Blush Damask, or Petite Lisette over the more traditional Damasks?

Hello ReclusiveEagle,
I will try to give you some answers:

  1. Kazanlik is synonymous with Trigintipetala. It is one and the same rose.
  2. Kazanlik is more slender in growth and has a somewhat unbalanced architecture. The habit of Ispahan is really beautiful and spreading. In terms of height, they are according to my observation very similar. Ispahan has significantly more petals and the flowering is long lasting and profuse.
  3. Whether the rose hips of Kazanlik are really larger, I doubt, but they are longer and narrower. The abundance of rose hips of Ispahan is probably very dependent on the location and the local climate. I usually experience this rose with many rose hips, while others report the opposite.Kazanlik has only one, maximum two achenes in a hip and maggots are often included. Ispahan contains more achenes (4-8) per hip.

The germination rate is not very high for both roses. Kazanlik: 3-4 germinations on 140 -150 achenes. Ispahan’s germination rate is even lower. However, I think that she is still the more difficult breeding rose. Randomly testing by embryo culture found almost exclusively infected embryos in both cases.

Strong, centifolia scent. I think there are only some small differences of fragrance between the two said roses but for my sensation Kazanlik smells stronger.

I had read that Blush Damask is not fertile. About the other two roses mentioned, I’m not able to report anything from my own experience.

I hope I could help.

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Ispahan is the better garden rose. Smells strong and flowers long. Kazanlik must be the best for oil since it’s the one they grow in Hungary for rose oil. Flowers are heavier and the smell is intense.

In my garden Ispahan has set but one hip on the 8 years I have her.

Alba semi-plena would also be a good choice. Apparently it us also bred for rose oil.