Does anyone know the ploidy/seed parent success rate of Jude the Obscure, Lady of Shallot, and Rhapsody in blue? They are my brothers favourite roses, so I’m planning a cross for him
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Lady of Shallot sets hips readily for me. I have raised some, but it does not have the vigor for my cold zone. I have thought of using ‘Isabella Skinner’ or ‘Snowball’ pollen on it to bring better hardiness unto it, or one of the Paul Barden gallicas. Lovely flower and scent but just does not have the vigor for me after winter.
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So vigour is important in cold climates because of cane dieback?
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Jude is a very good mother. Pollen viability is only so-so, but there is a lot of it.
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I’m in zone 9b here in ZA, so cold hardiness isn’t such a worry for me, but the Austins seem a bit slow to me, especially JTO. You normally see those photos with dozens of flowers, but at most I haven’t seen more than 4 flowers at one single time on it. Hopefully it picks up in its second year.
Hopefully Rhapsody in blues genes may invigorate any crosses I get from it.
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Yes, the plants need to flower before the very hot weather comes and shuts them down. Sometimes roses that die back to the crown don’t really get a chance to rebuild before that.
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JtO, LoS are tetraploids, RiB – not so sure, but very probably, too. Anyway, there is a big number of descendants for RiB listed on helpmefind.
A success rate of producing seeds depends not only on seed parent, but on fertility of pollen too, as well as on how ‘compatible‘ are the parents. If I place some very fertile tetraploid pollen on the stigma of a tetraploid rose, it is just one thing, but if I place a very fertile polen of a diploid rugosa on the same stigma – it is a completely different thing. In the first case I would probably get 10–30 achenes, in the second case, with some luck, I get 1–2 achenes, but most probably not any at all. The other thing is how many achenes will germinate. If you get 20 achenes, lets say, you would be lucky if 10 of them germinate. Also, after germination is finished, is it not guaranteed that all 10 germinants survive in future.
So, before making crosses, it is better to investigate, which seed parents are very fertile (one can find infos about descendants on helpmefind, or also just by looking at the plants in the fall — do they have many hips, or maybe not at all?)
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That is very interesting to hear about Lady of Shallot! I never had it set one hip for me. Probably
climate related?
Its pollen was very viable and I am now working with its offspring. It was pollen parent to Love’s Blush which inherited many of its great attributes.
It is also grandparent to Love’s Confusion from a different line of breeding.
I never got to work with Jude the Obscure, as it died the first winter. Lady of Shallot is much more hardy. She dies back, but grows back vigorously, unlike many other English Roses in our garden. (Just our experience in one location.)
Duane
Duane
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I should have added: I crossed Lady of Shallot with Lilian Austin in an attempt to get a good seed parent with some of her attributes. That proved successful and she has been a good seed parent for me. Obviously she lost a bit of hardiness in that cross, but less than I expected. Now I am crossing her with more hardy roses. Love’s Confusion is an example of that
(Lilian Austin x Lady of Shallot) x Chinook Sunrise
While it didn’t provide exactly what I was looking for in bloom form, it has proven to be a great plant in the garden. It also seems to be fairly popular so far selling through High Country Roses.
So perhaps you will have success using Lady of Shallot in various ways.
Duane
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David Austin snr i knew well .He used wild rose as his root stock. Then formed the leander root from that used it for most of his roses .His breeding types can be viewed on line .I asked Ai Robot who gave me all that was used in Hydehall rose so ask AI
I’ve been working with Jude the Obscure. I’ve also found it’s not very floriferous as it seems to be elsewhere. I’ve had more success with it as a seed parent, but haven’t had many successful offspring. I am holding out on 1 that has germinated this year. The others have all been very susceptible to disease or not vigorous this year and for the past few years.
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