Hulthemia or Hand Painted??? Not sure what's going on.

This new seedling has me a bit confused. It is from an OP cross of one of my Hulthemia seedlings. The seed parent was from a cross of K34-1 X L118-2. The seed parent carries the code M46 (see link below).

M46 exhibits a “streaking” effect of the Hulthemia blotch that I have seen in other Hulthemia seedlings. Instead of the blotch staying at the apex of the petals, it sort of bleeds out into the rest of the petals.

The OP seedling of M46 shown below doesn’t appear to have a blotch at all. I’m wondering if this is a very large blotch that has bled out to cover nearly the entire petal, or is it a hand painted effect with no Hulthemia influence. What do you think?!

The close-up is of the very first bloom. The second photo showing the full bloom is from the second bloom cycle and has a more intense red-orange coloration.

Jim Sproul


It looks handpainted to me. If its sun-resistant then that’d be pretty awesome. Gypsy Dancer bleaches in the sun =(

Can someone explain a little about the “hand painted” lines?

BTW Jim, this is another beauty…it is fabulous!!

Attractive Jim, looks “had painted” to me too.

Does this one descend from any of the Mcgredy spin. derivatives?

George, handpainted lines rise up randomly from some briar hybrids, as do the stippled lines. They have done so from both European and American briars of sorts. There is also the similar marbling effect.

It is this briar’s line that Robert is referring to:

…which is also the same briar species to have marbling, which is similar and not the same as spotting (like Fara’s hybrids do)

Often the briars that have these qualities that show up randomly in modern hybrids of them also have the same traits on the species level as sports or feral seedlings. Here is an example of Rosa arkansana doing that:

Clear as mud? Cause that’s about as clear as the origin of handpainting/marbling/stippling gets.

Thanks Michael…I see.

Looks hand painted to me. Is the yellow eye blocking some of the red eye causing it to only have the eye zone once it gets passed the yellow? I have no idea what the genetics of the blotch is. But it is very nice Jim. Now if you could make the petals ruffled, in groups of 3 or so; I think you would have a best seller.

Jadae, now that you mention it, I can see the resemblance to ‘Gypsy Dancer’. This seedling unfortunately also fades rather rapidly.

Robert, as far as I know, there are no hand painted McGredy derivatives in this one. The parentage is a mess to look at. The seed parent is bold, while the pollen parent is in italics:

X ({[(‘Orangeade’ X ‘Abraham Darby’) X ‘Midnight Blue’] X (‘Geisha’ X ‘Baby Love’)} X ) X __

It might be interesting to see whether a blotch would be seen in crosses of this one with non-Hulthemias.

Jim Sproul

Thanks Adam! From what I have seen, when there is a central eye zone blocking the blotch, there is almost always some subtle remnant of the blotch at the apex of the petals. M46 has that blotch remnant while N157-1 doesn’t appear to have it.

Jim Sproul

That parentage definitely reflects a lot of work.

Hi Jim,

None of those roses contains any hand painted line. Not even Purple Tiger contains it where it is common for stripes to be crossed with handpainteds. I have no clue what is in Tiggle though, so that is the only one from process of elimination that could have it. But, as we all know, traits arise on whim.

Oh yeah, for what its worth, I am guessing that Pure Poetry is an F2 of Gypsy Dancer :)That line (Pure Poetry, Cherries n Cream, Lovestruck) is probably decent for breeding warmer toned handpainteds. Although blackspot and thonriness is probably a high risk like most Impatient descendants.


CHEWtiggle is Tigris x Baby Love.

Jim’s idea of testing the F1 from this seedling to see if subsequent F1 can express a central hulthemia blotch is a great idea.

If this could be proven, then one would have to entertain the idea that in this case, the central part of a massive blotch is being silenced but the periphery of the blotch is being expressed (instead of a “hand painting”).

It would not be a very difficult experiment to do.

Even selfing it could give interesting resuls regarding this hypothesis.

George, I agree that planting OP seeds of this one would be interesting to see if any blotch showed up. I may also do a few pollinations… Too many experiments to complete!

Jim Sproul

That is so incredible! The coloring is so unique. Its really very beautiful Jim, congratulations!

That is such a beautifully saturated hot rose!

Does it fade to coral or just get lighter?

Thanks Jeanie and Jackie!

This is the true coloring - I didn’t mess with any photo enhancing on Photoshop! It does fade to a lighter, more washed out color, but the fresh color is what you see here. It will be interesting to see how the color changes outdoors.

Jim Sproul