With the demise of Weeks and Jackson Perkins, the closing of Bailey’s breeding program, the closing of Sequoia and the earlier closing of Nor’East there are now no rose breeders in the USA who are tied to (or supported by) a production and distribution network afaik.
What do you think this means for us?
Antique Rose Emporium in Texas still hybridizes, produces and sells roses.
Recognizing the rapidly diminishing likelihood of seeing any of my newer seedlings finding their way into commerce, this has been a very significant factor in my decision to quit raising new seedlings. Seriously…why bother if nobody but me gets to benefit from all that effort?
However, I would say to anyone breeding their own material: continue as long as you find the process enjoyable, knowing full well that the odds of your work ever entering commerce are very slim indeed. I suspect most RHA members fall into that category anyway.
Paul
When I started my Hybridizing “Hobby” a few years ago I never expected to have any of my roses enter commerce. Still don’t. For me, it is enough to have a few “rare” roses to share with family and friends.
My Swiss Grandfather used to climb a ladder to polinate the date palm trees on his South Texas farm. I’m just carrying on his botanical work with roses. Guess on some level it is in my blood.
However, I certainly understand how Paul, whom I consider a professional, feels discouraged by the recent turn of events.
Weeks will carry their breeding program. Also the situation is not limited to rose hybridizing, unfortunately, it is happening all over ornamental horticulture. It is a business that is shrinking, therefore offering less outlets for any new plant to have its 15 minutes of fame. As many of you have said it, the key is to enjoy rose breeding for what it is, something you really enjoy doing.
Since I’m hybridizing just to tease out genetics, and if anything works its way into commerce that’s extra, it won’t affect me much.
Jacques is right. I have a mutation of Chamaecyparis pisifera ‘Cream Ball’. Instead of the dwarfing and miniature soft needles, which burn in the sun, I have a full grown Hinoki type thats deep green with vanilla-toned new grown.
This is ‘Cream Ball’:
(See photo link)
Mine is of similar color, but it doesnt burn, and the architecture is like this cultivar:
(See page link)
Its not ugly yellow, though. Its deep green with vanilla tips. However, I cannot do anything with it since the market is D E A D. The only thing that still sells is Emerald Green Arbs since they can make 10 to 30’ tall property line walls…
Link: www.iglaki.agro.pl/dokumenty/grafiki/iglaste/gro/plumosa.aurea.jpg
I can only speak for myself, of course, but until the question, “what will those two make together?”, stop popping into my head, I’ll continue mixing them up. There are too many “what if?” that pop up every day and it’s FUN trying to find out.
I just collected seed today of White Cecile Brunner X Repeat DLFED. What will THOSE look like? Too Cute X Julia Child just flowered and it’s clean and fragrant here. Lynnie X Wild Dancer is growing and has a bud… Pink Gate X Magic Wand opened a few single, pink flowers and it’s CLEAN. Perhaps no where else, but it is here and now.
My seedlings will likely never earn me fame or fortune, but they DO make my slice of dirt a happier place. My offpsring are cleaner and healthier than many I’ve bought that DID make it into commerce. It’s a hobby, a past time, and as such, it keeps me pleasantly occupied, mentally and physically. Kim
I agree with you Kim, its all about self satifaction and achievement. The thing that makes me the happiest is when I see some one enjoying what I have been able to create but the only thing that worries me is because they have n’t been commercialized a lot of what I have bred, only one of that cultivar exists , and if something was to happen to it , that would be a cultivar lost forever. That is the thing I fear most.
Kim’s reply could have easily been written by me. Part curiosity - as a geneticist roses are a different beast compared to the more “model” plant species. Personally my tastes tend to be fairly eclectic and I like having unique plants that no one else has. And I look at the hobby as a form of retirement planning - something to keep me out of trouble when I decide that I have had enough of working for a living. I have more than a few years to ago before this becomes a possibility. I figure that I have another 15 to 20 generations, before I get serious about the hobby. By then I hope that I am just working with mostly my seedlings. Time will tell…
Liz
I will continue to hybridize because I love the challenge of coming up with disease free, fragrant, vigorous hybrid teas. Our local rose society has a challenge class for seedlings shown by the hybridizer which always draws remarks from the judges who come in from other areas. To all…keep up the good work.
jack c.
Yeah, I still would not quit despite zero profit. I dont really care, lol. I’d go insane without an imaginative outlet – possibly literally.
I too feel that Kim has written what most of us feel. The challenge of there are so many “what if’s” to try. I still look at a rose and wonder what I would cross this one with - even when judging at a show! Sometimes I get so engrossed I tend to forget which one should get the blue ribbon! And as all of you have written, every one of you could write a wonderful article for the newsletter about your reasons for hybridizing. Some of you are very articulate in your expressions. Peter has begged for years and I am sure Betsy will do the same in the future. I know that some of you do write for the newsletter - I hope that the rest of you will get the urge to do so as well.
I’m not so sure that we should resign ourselves to to a lack of commercial prospects for our hybrids. IIRC Jackson and Perkins breeders alone were prospecting nearly a million seedlings a year. That’s a big void to fill.
However, big size can be a detriment. We can’t match those numbers but we do have a couple of advantages that level the playing field somewhat.
We can cast a wide net with respect to the types of crosses that we make because we lack the commercial pressures to conform to a product stereotype. Put another way, we have the opportunity to innovate.
We are able to pay much closer attention for longer periods of time to our hybrids than someone running a marathon while examining seedling beds.
There is strength, too, in collaboration. The sharing of genetics and ideas would seldom occur between corporations but it is the very essence of our own organization.
Don, the other aspect not taken into consideration in your post is the collapse of the American market. Tom Carruth and Chris Greenwood wrote an article for a trade publication citing the collapse of the sales figures. A decade ago, we produced fifty million rose plants. The latest figures (two years ago, IIRC), it had fallen to around eighteen million, with the bulk of that being Knock Out variants.
That collapse is due to a variety of reasons, but it points to the lack of necessity for millions of seedlings to be produced. The rose industry has now followed all the others where in house R&D is too expensive and out sourcing it, like I.T. and so many other functions, to outside consultants is the way to go. I believe it will lead to more regional roses, in lower quantities by newer sources which isn’t a bad thing, viewed from the point of view of gardeners in more climate demanding areas. Kim
I feel like a bagpiper who’s been asked how the woes of the major record labels have affected his playing.
You know, though this is bad news for “the industry”, for back yard breeders, it opens more doors. When the major houses had expensive R&D departments with breeders on the payroll, getting your seedling taken seriously was difficult. Why pay YOU royalties when all of them can be kept in-house? Think Renae in the 40s with Armstrong and their introduction of Cl Pinkie; Shadow Dancer until Fourth of July was ready, etc. Ralph collected royalties for a little while on both, until his product was dumped in favor of corporate products.
Even though they’re very novel roses, how good a chance would Jim have had for the Eyeconics had CP maintained an expensive breeding department? Week’s has been the more open pipeline for outside product, (bless them!) but even they couldn’t afford too many amateur offerings for introduction compared to their paid-for in house seedlings.
It took a non rose source for the Knock Outs and Flower Carpets of the world to be introduced and become the profit engines they are. Instead of “roses” they are “landscape plants”. I think that’s what has to happen to “roses” for them to be taken really seriously from now on. We’ll have ‘novelties’ which will sell some and then “landscape plants” which stand a far better chance of making serious money. Perhaps that WILL be better for “us”? Kim
I think the death of these corporations with big business and poor quality product is fine. There is a reason they failed. Product not doing what it promises, poor quality, adherence to old trends. Not adapting.
If anything it follows what eventually a model of what America needs to do with EVERYTHING and that’s scale back. We’ve been highly spoiled with access and at the rate we’re going I feel in the next ten years or so I think our general way of living will call for some overall simplification anyway.
If anything this is better for backyard breeders imo, we just need to be more vocal and network better in order to establish a better “web”. If improvements can be made to the Knockout clan via backyard, it can happen. You just need to figure out the right cross. In the meantime, people need to learn better design, I hate the remanants of “bedding” and the whole California grass and dayliles look…
I hate leland cyprus too.
Me too! Give me Arizona Cypress any day! Kim
