HMF

General Discussion
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21

I think everyone is missing the points. HMS could be improved, it has been, and is continuing.

It’s been discussed before, if you name a rose and then show a photo, it’s up for grabs.

I’m already listed as a breader. I contacted the administrator and ask how to and was blown off. Then ask here if it was needed to be vetted and finally the answer is yes in a fashion.

First Kiss was just an example. I already have well over 100 decendants of all sort and why would I want to show all of them. Why would I want to show a shriveled up decendant of Dynasty, when a white clean one might be of interest.

Neil

22

Neil, unfortunately, your point is an easy one to miss. I attempted to determine just what you were having difficult with, and am still not totally sure what the issue is.

I’m sure you would be more selective about what to create pages for and add to the database, but you, and the majority of us here are NOT the “average” user who wishes to show their babies on line. Not to disparage anyone, but there have been some truly gawd-awful photos and other offerings “donated” to the site. Not everyone is as selective, nor as careful about what should be added.

I’m sorry if you felt blown off by the HMF Administrator. I don’t know the full story, nor was I involved in that process, so I can’t otherwise make any comments. Yes, HMF can be better. It’s is worlds better than it was just five years ago. If everyone helped drum up new supporting members to increase the revenue, what it WILL be would blow us all away!

23

Regarding Uncle Joe and Toro, you may find the following of interest:

http://www.buckeyerose.com/THEGREATOUTLAW.pdf

24

Whoa. Let’s remember that HMF, despite what could be a trickle of income from memberships, is in all likelihood not a for-profit website. It has been created and maintained, as far as I know, by a staff of largely invisible volunteers. I think what they have accomplished is amazing. I’m grateful for everything it is today, and any future improvement will be frosting.

25

[quote=jbergeson]

Whoa. Let’s remember that HMF, despite what could be a trickle of income from memberships, is in all likelihood not a for-profit website. It has been created and maintained, as far as I know, by a staff of largely invisible volunteers…[/quote]

It is definitely non-profit. It began as a labor of love and continues as a labor of love. The little income it gets in a year from memberships and nursery sponsorships would not pay a week’s wages at normal pay scale for someone able to write the custom software that makes the site work. Changes in any one little feature (and there are many improvements every year) must be checked for their effect on existing functions before they are allowed to go “live”.

HMF is intended as a wiki, with users providing content and sharing knowledge. Way too many people think of it simply as a service–something like buying access to Encyclopedia Britannica, for example. Eventually most of these users want to share, and do, and that is what makes HMF unique. Sure, sometimes people in good faith upload pictures of something they have bought as one variety–and then from others’ comments they learn that their plant is mislabeled. So there are sometimes incorrectly identified pictures on HMF–but through visitor response these errors are corrected.

And other problems pop up from time to time, but they are usually corrected quickly.

And you can count on HMF. It’s rarely down for more than an hour.

Peter

26

I have counted on HMF for the last ?how many? years. It has evolved for the better, I have used it at least weekly, sometimes daily, and when they asked a trifling amount to use the plant database, I believe I initially added a couple of dollars to that amount. It is the only rose database out there that has substance, and I marvel at the amount of roses, and rose info it contains. When I occasionally look something up (like in Beales or Macoboy, or whomsoever,) it is simply amazing the amount of different info on so many varietals is there by comparison, not sounding formulaic or repetitive, but personal because so many persons contribute, esp., in the comments. HMF will be a lasting jewel of info on roses. Others have started out with lofty ideas of creating a similar or improved database on the subject of roses, but as far as I know they have all faded away, or stopped far short of accomplishing what HMF is still working on.

27

Looking back at my question to HMF Admin, it was misconstrued as to mean, how to bring up a decendant report.

Neil

28

A similar one to Help-Me-Find that I am familar with is at: Redirecting...

For me it is loading very slowly lately.

29

Thanks, Henry, but just a couple of exceptions…

Their “history” section hasn’t been updated in a bit over a decade.

Just browsing the “A” list for sources, they continue to list Arena and Ashdown as current rose sources. Who knows how many other obsolete entries are there?

It appears only roses printed in the ARS registrations get entered into their database, so if you wish to be listed there, be sure to register your roses with the ARS. Something I haven’t done in many years. My latest rose listed here is from 1998, and that isn’t the correct date for the rose.

30

Niel, since I spend a lot of time on HMF, I think I am going to clarify how the HMF database works. I do not know if you are a premium member and am going to make the assumption that you are not. If I am wrong, please forgive me.

Unless you opt to become a premium member on HMF, you do not have access to the propriatory software that shows the lineage reports. If you want to view a sample of the reports available, just open any rose page, click on the LINEAGE tab and then you can click on any of the radio buttons for the linage reports and the reports for the rose ‘Betty Boop’ will appear. The decendant lineage reports include sports, IF they have been included in the database. Of course, the reports cannot list a rose that has never been entered into the database.

HMF Administrators do not upload photos except as members of the site that they have taken and want to share with the rose community. If a rose does not have a photo, that means no one has uploaded a photo. HMF does not maintain a private library of photos of all roses included in the database.

As a non-premium member, you can do an ADVANCED SEARCH and click the link for LINEAGE, enter the seed parent … lets say it’s Mr. L … and click CONTINUE, then click SEARCH. All of the roses with Mr. L listed as a seed parent or a sport will appear in the SEARCH RESULTS with live links to the rose pages. Of course, rose that have never been entered into the database will not appear in the SEARCH RESULTS.

There are a lot of roses in the database without any reported lineage. Those roses will also not appear in the SEARCH RESULTS.

As being for being “blown off” when requesting what I call “breeder rights” to enter roses you have bred, I think there may be more to the story as HMF has had a long standing policy of encouraging breeders to list their seedlings on HMF.

You will be limited to adding roses that you have bred and can be tied to your BREEDER page. No, you will not be able to add a rose bred by another breeder.

One of the things I, personally, would like to see is that breeders who have listed their seedlings with a given cross to go back to the seedling rose page and add a BREEDER NOTE that the seedling has been culled (as of a given date) as the cross did not produce a viable seedling to bring forward and to change the information in the AVAILABILITY section of the rose page from PENDING REGISTRATION, PENDING INTRODUCTION, BREEDING STOCK ONLY to BELIEVED EXTINCT OR LOST. If a seedling is culled, to me, it’s lost.

I think this would make the seedling pages more interesting to other breeders because it lets them know that this cross was deemed, in the breeder’s eyes, as an unsuccessful seedling.

Please keep in mind that any rose added to the database and any photo added to the database has an associated cost, so it is wise to only add the seedlings you think may ending up to be good plants.

If you find an error on HMF, please report it. We count on members of the rose community to help point out those errors. If you see information that you think is incorrect, check the REFERENCES on the rose page, the patent and the MEMBER COMMENTS. So if you think 90% of the decendants of MR. L are invalid, you have a lot of roses to report … lol.

Since I am not a breeder, I am not going to comment about your statement that the genes in the seed parent are more dominent than the genes in the pollen parent.

Please feel free to contact either the support department on HMF or me if you have further questions. My user name is “Lyn G”

Smiles,

Lyn

31

Lyn,

Even after checking the little box for breeder I’ve never seen mention of breeders rights. When feeling out admin for such a thing it seemed to fly over the head.



I never said INVALID, if you breed roses you would know why I mentioned it.

( Since I am not a breeder, I am not going to comment about your statement that the genes in the seed parent are more dominent than the genes in the pollen parent.). Again that’s not what was wrote. To me it does make a difference if the seedling came from the seed parent at least till the traits are known.

And lastly how about some breeder rights for little ol me.

Neil

32

Neil, what is your HMF member name, please? With that information, I can see what you are listed as. Thanks.

33

HMF name is papa, the same as a lot of decendants call me.



Neil

34

Neil…

The term “breeder rights” is my own term. Just contact the HMF support department and tell them you are a breeder and you would like to list your roses. Of course, you have to be a registered member on HMF. The support department will connect your user name to your breeder name.

Smiles,

Lyn

35

Lyn,

I think their was a cluster mess-up somewhere and at this time I’m not inclined to persue it.

Thanks,

Neil

36

If anyone is interested.

To add a rose to decendants just take a photo of your seedling and give the seed parent and pollen parent, then post to photos. The site automatically lists the new plant under both parents decendants.



But, if you do that first, then you can not post it under your plants breed. So post to plants breed first and the site will automatically do it’s thing. Now I need to go back and fix some errors but not today.



Neil

37

Neil…

I strongly suggest that you do not add your seedlings to HMF in this manner. The system will not connect the roses added to your breeder name. Just contact support and do it right

Lyn

38

Hi Lyn,

I believe I’m past that point as indicated by the above post as a warning. I also posted some places on your site to make it easier for newbies to start adding their new roses. My first addition is unique for decendants of Chicago Peace '30-1' Rose My second addition is one of only four decendants from Vavoom and two of us are RHA membershttp://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.67324 I’ll get the first one to list under my breeders list and add more info to my entries as I go along and become more familiar with your site. And you need more breeders to build your data base. Overall those entries from RHA members are some of the best.



Neil

39

Hi Lyn,

My feeling has been that a lot of miscommunication and frustration could be dealt with in a more linear fashion if there was a very simple guide process, that has a link of some sort to follow. Otherwise, a lot of wasted time and frustration is to be had by all parties, which is rather unfortunate. My assumption is that this is entirely about the celebration, education, and continuance of the rose to everyone possible, and I believe all levels of hybridizers are essential for this to be a whole process. I am sure I am correct in saying that, but I also realize the how much personal time and effort you already put in, so maybe there is a way to resolve this in the future so it is less painful. I ran into this entire issue myself some years prior, and if I was not so bull-headed, I would have given up. Also, know that I was light years ahead of most in training with PCs, so add that into the realitivy of the equation of what others may be going through.

Regards,

Mike

40

Hi Mike…

The best place to make that kind of suggestion is on HMF.

All of the volunteers put in a lot of time and effort and HMF is ever evolving. Many suggestions by site users land on an enhancement list. It’s a long list, so it may be a while before they are implemented.

Smiles,

Lyn