Great new paper looking at rose relatedness with AFLP markers

AFLP markers as a tool to reconstruct complex relationships: A case study in Rosa (Rosaceae)

American Journal of Botany. 2008;95:353-366.

view abstract at


Wow! I guess we may finally find out what’s really going on?

Hi You!

Very good inspiration for thinking about relationships. …

I thought about some of the links between the sections for some time and it seems at least plausible to me at most of the linkages, as it is described.

Always be aware of the relativley small amounts of DNA that is compared here, although the methods are getting better and better. …



Should someone make a new section listing, and revise the old one? I’m honestly not shocked by the results. However, I usually ignore such things anyways. It is not like sections defy possibility in breeding. Although they are good for pointing out collective traits. For example, it is interesting that SE Asian roses, dwarfing (ie. polyanthas) or miniaturization (from chinensis, for example) are common threads with each other.

btw, is it me or do some rugosas when crossed with ramblers create a similar effect as chinas with ramblers?

Ok, If no one is shocked by the results, it would be interesting for me, what you are thinking about the complete missing of the banks Roses section in this article?

Peter Harness wrote about the banksiae in his review in 2005, but - what is the state of art NOW, if its not told us here in this new article?

Does anybody have some good ideas about it?

(They didn’t integrate gigantea and chinensis in this article, but - they never tell us anything about the whole section of the banksianae.

So: Have they simply forgotten about it?)


Greetings from Germany,



Preliminary work on Asian species was done by Japanese researchers in 2000 and 2001. They were still working with the taxonomic scheme that broke out subgenera Eurosa from Hulthemia. Using ITS1-58S-ITS2 sequencing, they placed Banksias are in Section Banksianae, Rosa laevigata in Section Laevigatae, and Rosa bracteata is in Section Bracteatae. Their articles on Asian Synstaylae and Eurosa are in Acta Horta Proceedings for 2000 and 2001.

Subsequently Wissemann et al. proposed revising the genus this way:

I. subgen. Hulthemia (Dumort) Focke monotypic, R. persica Michx. ex Juss.

II. subgen. Rosa approx. 200 species

  1. sect. Cinnamomeae (DC. Ser.) (incl. Carolinae Cr

Hi Cass,

as we have 11:00pm here in middle Europe now, I will print out your infos and I will read it tomorrow (so the forum has got to do something for every of the 24 hours of one day, thats ok).


Thanks, so I’ll sleep over it, and think tomorrow,


Thank You Cass for summarizing it for everyone.