Howdy all, this may be of interest to Jim Sproul. Jim, I think I may have winged something of great interest, not once but twice. I have pollinated two seedlings of mine ( Wendy X Altissimo) and (Wendy X Gold Bunny) with Euphrates pollen about one month ago and the hips are still holding firm and developing. If they do amount to anything, this will give us another Hulthemia hybrid to work with the existing hybrids available to us.
Pollinated seven blooms with some (Eyes for You) the other day.
Yes, that is the problem, and it does seem to be coming from ‘Tigris’. However, I suspect that it really comes directly from Hulthemia persica. Fortunately, it is not a class phenomenon, its just something that shows up when you don’t want it to - like in the seedling that I posted.
Hi Warren,
It will be very interesting to see if these will produce viable seedlings. I do not doubt that there will be other fertile hybrid seedlings that may come directly even from the species. ‘Eyes for You’ should be an excellent pollen parent. Best wishes for success with it!
Yeah, I grow Trier and a hybrid of Danae x Leonie Lamesch (so half to 3/4rths Trier), and neither of them have die-back. Danae didnt either, when I used to grow it. However, Leonie Lamesch does, much like most tea-derivitives do here. Yet, its hybrid with Danae, which is at least half Trier, does not have die-back.
Regarding the die-back and soil-drainage issues, I don’t suppose there are any hybrids of roses such as R. clinophylla or R. palustris – both tolerant of wet soils – that even come close to being suitable to use with hulthemia derivatives at this point, are there?
I would think some of the Indian hybrids of R.c. would be more likely candidates.
For that matter, Hardy’s Hulthemia ‘Berberifolia hardii’ presumably has clinophylla in its lineage… Has it been used at all??
The majority of modern yellows are Pernetiana and Caninae descendents. I do not think this is an accident, and evolved because of the the colder-regioned European breeders. Pernetianas, especially the pre-Peace ones, were especially prone. Those heavily Pernetiana but still in modern gardens (ie. Royal Sunset, Royal Gold, Brandy, Just Joey, King’s Ransom, etc) die-back with yearly predictability. They also often resent heavy pruning. I’m not even going to go into mauves. The story is similar.
Wichurana-types would also be another positive solution.
The family and not the species. Rosa rubiginosa is the culprit, but I said Caninae because none of them or their hybrids are having said issue in my various gardens, which are always wet clay during the dormant season. They, like Rosa multiflora, grow like weeds in this soil that is opposite of the desert briars.
Well, looking back into this thread, has anyone used any hybrid musks crossed with the hulthemias? I was trying to think of slightly more demure synstylae descendants that might be good candidates.
Jim, how many of your hulthemias have Baby Love in their lineage? (I’m ashamed to admit that I have yet to grow this one.)
I have a seedling of ‘Ballerina’ that I have tried with some of the Hulthemia hybrids, with disappointing results - very few seedlings to evaluate and mildew prone with very faint blotches.
Regarding ‘Baby Love’ in our Hulthemia seedlings, I think that if not 100%, very nearly 100% have it in their lineages. This year I did a lot of crosses with ‘Double Knock Out’. Next year, I hope to add in ‘White Out’ and ‘Pink Drift’. One of the biggest challenges when pulling in new lines is maintaining blotch intensity and heat stability.
You were saying previously about the blotch fading out as the bloom ages. Have you had the thought of adding roses whose blooms are photosensitive.
In the pagelink below is a rose I bred which does that, the more sunlight it receives, the pink intensifies. I called it the Yellow Changeling and you will see were the petals have overlapped there is no colour change. I started using it this year, but its real worth will be will be tested when I cross it with the possible Eyes for You offspring. The Yellow Changeling is the result of a cross of Freissa X Hot Chocolate and although it is a single, having different coloured blooms on the same plant can look quite appealing.
I really like the effect seen in your Yellow Changeling.
Although many of the blotches fade, just like other colors in roses, some of the Hulthemia blotches intensify on the second day, taking on a darker, more purple coloring. The link below is of a video of a seedling “L83-1” that does this. Unfortunately, it also has a significant problem with dieback.
I think I had also in the past wondered about Astronomia too – a single flowered Bonica descendant, sold locally as ‘The Charlatan’, I believe – when I saw an image of your dark purple-blotch offspring. Bonica, it seems, can give offspring purple anthers which, with the right shade of pink, I find rather attractive. Astronomia was a multiple gold-medal winner in European trials a half decade ago, and is evidently a blooming machine.
Warren, I like your Changeling. I love the mutable phototropic roses for the variety of harmonious colors a single bush can provide. (Wish I could figure out a sure-fire formula for breeding them.)
Every spring, for the last 3, this L83-1 seedling has put out nice, hopeful and healthy appearing foliage, topped with those nice appearing flowers, but by late summer dieback is horrendous. I can’t yet bring myself to cull it, however.
Hi Jadae,
I hadn’t thought about ‘First Light’, but yes, it looks like it could be a great addition to use for breeding Hulthemias. Do you know what kind of germination rate it has?
First Light is quite attractive, but it is so close to Ballerina, I would resist it until it demonstrates it has none of her terrible habits in warmer climates. Severe chlorosis; very short-lived foliage which is addicted to mildew here, even the flowering wood, peduncles and sepals mildew; the flowers fade to an awful shade of greenish dishwater and there is die back to beat the band. I’ve grown it in Santa Clarita, Valencia, Granada Hills and Encino, both own root and budded to Huey, and found it terrible in each garden. Not to mention, in warm, long season areas, it is a large climber, spreading its faults over large areas rather quickly. Pookah is what I would hope Ballerina to look like, being much more mannerly, with none of the foliage, disease and growth issues, and its blooms keep the color significantly better. Ballerina and its offspring which have inherited too many of its bad genes, have been SO bad in my experience, I completely avoid anything bred from it which hasn’t shown itself worthy in other gardens. Once bitten… It would be a pity to contaminate that wonderful line you’ve created with the Ballerina issues, Jim. Kim
Your experience with Ballerina really underscores for me the differences that geography makes in the performance of a plant.
Here a mature own-root Ballerina gets to be about five feet tall, eight feet across and is covered in blooms from one end of the season to another. I haven’t had any die-back on mine and never saw any on the plant it came from at Elizabeth Park. It also is one of the more healthy plants in the garden. The blooms don’t fade at all.
I’ve been using it extensively, although this year I focused on crosses with Sweet Chariot targeting fragrance and, of course, carotenoids. A yellow fragrant Ballerina would be spectacular (here?).
