First Germination after Hail Trashing of Season

[RikuHelin]

R. arkansana x Applejack, a Quebec Canada hybridizer’s effort (via suppler comment), germinated today as the first for 2025.

Crossing seeds via an Alberta grown bush’s hips.

A germination hail recovery no cost aid program contribution to me … like crop insurance benefits (unofficial underground network prog).

Don’t see this one on my Quebec friends hybridized list (85 entries) though list may need updating. Their Applejack x Fedtschenkoniana (sic?) crossing on list.

The first to germinate after 5 days of 68F/18C after 3 months at -2 to +4C.

One of 49 small meat loaf trays of various species, mine and donated others’ crosses, and significant others crosses hips harvest. As the lady warned “let the fun begin”.

Think this is the R. ark cross that l noticed that gave only 1 seed per hip for 99% of the hips. Probably 50 - 100 donated hips that l shucked for this observation. However there are two more types of “pure R arkansana “, one dwarf and other “generic”.

Shows why waste energy? - just make one count?

I believe the plants on a nearby grassland hill wildlife park near me are also mostly R. arkansana. They are very short and hang on in a very exposed environment. Have to chase a lead there is a group of “white” ones in area this spring.

PS

Germinations today, Gay Centennial and Fanny Heathe.

I think l am finally out of the dark rain and lightening storm cloud of not being able to successfully and consistently germinate “ANY” Rose Seeds.

I credit mostly reading 100 year old RHS research on stratification temperatures done near SIL home. And anecdotal info on Percy Wright/Skinner techniques (eg can of hardy seeds tossed into a snowbank) and Hannu’s Finnish technique. And cycling from Rosesus.

[RikuHelin]

A maybe,“robust biggy” last night, for my color-hardy criteria. A hail storm cross survivor.

Seed parent the lushest Cdn violet-purple-red rugosa (hydrid) in my garden (just deep violet - purple to my eyes in shade).

Apparently an easy sprout.

May have to pay more attention to these rugosa for germination rush factor enhancement.

Caroyal of my preferred spelling was seed parent (Erskine’s 2007 maybe just year of intro seems young) .

It was crossed with a Cdn found rose of a couple of spellings, our “Grannies Rose” (pollen).

Hopefully a real cross that tames down Caroyal Sasquatch growth habit.

Both hardy in my garden. Caroyal semi double, non - recurrent, Grannie’s double pink non recurrent.

Caroyal HMF => Hansa (Rugosa, Schaum & Van Tol, 1905) × Lac La Nonne

Nothing like throwing maybe a ancient hardy ?damask? No idea what Grannie’s is, if damask first hardy one l found.

[RikuHelin]

Last night, 3 x ((AuB ) + ?c?) germinated. Also know as OP of A&B.

Turning out to be best germinating year ever for hardy varieties … good because garden due for re-work of poor performing areas.

[RikuHelin]

Last night, more Fanny Heath and the mother of all the alphanumeric in the series, a germinated op “Ross Rambler”.

[RikuHelin]

Today ends cycle# 1 (3 months of just below 0C to 4C). Cycle#2 starts with back into the fridge/freezer to just below 0C.

Cycle #1 was satisfying and resulted in new heritage, existing crosses and my own cross germinating.

Darn though moss crosses haven’t fired off with laxa and reverse parentage.

As l was putting ungerminated trays back to just below 0C, a flash of green caught my eye. A save from freezing to death.

But more importantly it was the first germinations of the species white R altaica l’ve had (tried before and x’s). Large single white blooms in my opinion.

I started with 49 small economical aluminum meat loaf trays with clear plastic lids. Seeds in 100% moistened pearlite. 1/4 germinated 3/4 back-in for cycle#2.

Feb 24/2025

Definitely broke some beginner hardy hybridized and species barrier of the 5 years. Or its donated heritage cross and species seed quality.

A lot more germinating from #1 cycle from trays left out of second cycle freeze due to already germinating.

One example is the favourite barrier kick down … 3 more white R altaica.

The failure wounds of the past 5 years have healed over and no scars … that l know of …

Aka gaining experience through observations, reading and testing / applying past valid work relative to your rose growing environment and confidence you have combos right, including cold stratification technique ( for my climate), you improve and move forward.

As to crosses (mine), it’s still a crap shoot at this stage.

Feb 26 2025

A 100% completion of 1st cycle which came this morning arbitrarily ( reduce frequency of germination criteria ) after transferring 3 more germinated seedlings.

About 2 weeks plus a few days at above zero.

All 49 trays back in fridge at slightly less than 40F or 4.444C. Not going below zero C…

More than enough to meet personal needs but going for more with another cycle (average 3-4 per 4”x4” pots) - mainly species and half dozen old crosses and mine.

All good to minus -20C winters when adults and an easy prediction, a few easily -30C.

The other picture others may cringe at is caused by my curiosity about the good/excellent performance of Gay Centennial. Planted into very damp pot today.

This rose offers evidence that its strong germination (ease of) and no fear of -0C stratifying could be, or its parents, good cross candidates for sadly lacking new material in the true hardy roses group at your local that are good for the exiled “Grapes of Wrath and The Drifters” homelands (J Steinbeck and J A Michener).

Know of one dedicated hybridizer that has uses it.

[RikuHelin]

Trays out today from 2nd cycle at 0 deg. C for ~16 days.

51 trays (doubles due to seed quantity for some examples). Trays 2 and 3 high, and 2 deep per shelf in bar scale fridge (seed aluminum trays 6”x 3.3” x 2”). Photo has 4th shelf cut off.

Has to be 0C +/- degrees as condensation on some lids and ice on walls of bar fridge/ freezer. Thermometer reads 0C.

Now heading to 18-20C in germination trays (c/w lids/vents and thermocouple / heat mats for monitoring temperature. Room ambient monitored as its a basement, usually 16-18C.

Try to maintain condensation on clear tray lids, until germination done (risky due to damp off).

Boring photo and data, but good for my hybridizing germination diary. Green life tray is cycle 1 germinations with 2 deceased so far. One’s cotyledon half did not unfurl properly but had no seed cover to hinder it doing so.

Now my wait to see if any new ones pop up.

Based on previous experience, optimistically no more than 10-15% of first cycle germination count - wishing to be proven wrong, or my only laxa x moss and reverse be the only ones that germinate.

Need more deterrent hedging material … with colour.

As mentioned above, all seeds true hardy as in crosses, heritage and species.

[RikuHelin]

After 72 hours in 19 deg C ambient after out of 2nd cycle at 0C +/-, the first germination noted today - with flaws. Doubt affects survival.

(AuB)+?C?

Monday March 17 2025

There have been more germinations, after 3 days, but they are already existing types that germinated in cycle 1.

AuB)+?C? may not survive. Cotyledon tips area yellow region have turned brown. Speculate seed had already germinated when put back 0C.

Update plant survived to-date March 21

Happy more Altaica, Ross Rambler ( March 20th) and fanny 22**

March 21 and 22 2025

Total and cycle 2 germination numbers status to March 22 6pm MST for midway through 2nd cycle ( in progress ).

Varieties 42
Total Seeds ~ 1000 +/- 250
Varieties germinated 8
Total seedlings 45
Total time in stratification - treatment 140days

% germination 4.5%

Gay Centennial 14 plants
Altaica 11 (as of 5 pm MST March 22)
Fanny Heath 6
AuB + ? 4
Caroyal x Grannies 3 ( Riku cross )
Ross Rambler 4
Fedtschenkonian 1
Arkansana x Applejack 2 (-1)

All germinations in cycle 2 same rose type as in cycle 1 except less varieties

Run cycle 2 for more weeks because of learnings from cycle 1. Dump into cycle 3 until mid May.

Crikey, this is turning into real time reporting. Going to halt diary reporting until things settle down after this entry (March 22).

Altiaca turning out to be cycle 2 best so far. With 3 new since this morning March 22 ( 2 of them after 9 am and 1 during the night before 9 am) .

Corumba! its taken off in cycle 2 and giving me now a total of not 9 but 11 !! Seven in cycle 2 and 4 in cycle 1.

Call this validation of modified technique.

This is a surprise based on my experience … as never had crossed ones germinate using my stock (had one year R. xanthina germinate 9 seedlings - but future crosses as seed parent failed including with my own R altaica stock).

Both varieties of these were true hardy species roses. Getting good op results, means l can now move back testing cross strategies. Three species included R begggeriana, have been successfully germinated in good numbers.

Definitely need to increase cycle 1 time in ambient beyond 2 weeks for hardy - will double time as a minimum - too impatient in recycling to #2 (0 C).

And Ross Rambler, and late in day of the 22nd has double to 4 seedlings in total. One germinated in cycle 1 coming into cycle 2. A rambler building mother plant?

Definitely ended cycle 1 too early.

[RikuHelin]

Change by early dusk March 24

Gay Centennial 14 plants => 15
Altaica 11 => 15
AuB + ? 4 => 6
Caroyal x Grannies 3 => 4 (Riku’s cross )
Ross Rambler 4 => 5
Fedtschenkonian 1 => 2

March 26

Finally a newer rose “ modern semi hardy” showed up today …. OP “Carefree Beauty” (one l wanted to cross, plus more altaica). Look like l will try next season.

April 3

Trays returned to 0C today - start of cycle 3.

Combined germinations to end of cycle 1 and then cycle 2.

Gay Centennial 14 => 14
Altaica 11 => 22
Fanny Heath 5 (-3) => 5 (+3)
AuB + ? 4 => 6
Caroyal x Grannies 3 => 4 Riku
Ross Rambler 4 => 5
Fedtschenkonian 1 => 2
Carefree Beauty 0 => 5
Arkansana x Applejack 2 (-1) => 1

Germination Totals

Cycle# 1 = 44
Cycle# 2 = 24 (54% of cycle 1 total)

Total Surviving plants to start of cycle 3 = 64

Cycle 1 is king by wide margin.

However if l stopped at cycle 1, l would have missed 5 carefree beauties ( look healthy so far).

Fanny Heath had high mortality rate post germination.

And the The Big Elephant in the Room the % of varieties l tested that germinated so far is 10%.

All real existing roses except for my cross that germinated and now exists and l direct it to be purple … .

Good thing that trying to germinate is simple non time demanding pleasure once you have a core technique that kind of works … only took 5 years in my case and worked it out.

Now back to the reference material and finding the crossing path to my true hardy rambler of royal purple / red …