It seems to me that there are two forms of halos.
The first one looks like a “complete blotch”-- where the blotch starts from the very bottom of the petal and then radiates to the neck of the petal.
The other one looks more like a bar… The neck of the petal is blotched… but it doesn’t start from the bottom.
Is there two forms of blotches going on???
Hi Jim,
Is that second rose from the upper right hand corner on the Weeks website yours?
I love coming back to this post to see what people are writing and hoping each time there are more pictures of your AMAZING roses :0).
David
Link: www.weeksroses.com/
I agree with you David, I also visit this post often to see more of Jim’s roses. They are so awesome.
Jim, the color of M61-1 is so illuminating, and what makes it more amazing is how the “halo” connects precisely to each petal and forms a perfect ring, it really is incredible. Another fantastic example of God’s handiwork. ;^)
Thank you Don, Terry and Peter - I suppose that it is no secret that I am hooked on Hulthemias!
Thanks too Paul for your nice comments. Yes, I will try to go to Visalia again in the next month. Last fall I took a plant of K201 to Mr. Moore - I think that he enjoyed it. I will take bunches of whatever is blooming. As you know, he still loves talking roses and making plans for crosses! The Hulthemia plant habit has been somewhat persistant, but I think that we are finally getting some nice plants that are also quite clean.
Enrique, yes, I think that there are different kinds of presentations of the blotch - some are distinct with clear borders, others diffuse into the other color of the petal, while still others streak into the rest of the petal. I have also seen what looks like the blotch becoming a line down the middle of the petal farther out from the center. Some blotches are “cut off” from the petal apex, while others go all the way to the apex. I wonder if some of these presentations are due to interaction with various rose genes, or whether they have more to do with the blotch gene(s) themselves. Finally, I think that I have seen certain roses having other dominant petal traits that do not allow the blotch to show at all (especially roses with strong yellow centers). Anyway, I think there is still much to be learned about the Hulthemias and I think that they will offer many new petal colorations that have not existed in roses before.
David, I think that the rose on the Weeks site is one of Chris Warner’s. They are putting one of his into the AARS. Thank you for your nice words.
Jeanie, thanks for the reminder that all of these roses that we get to see before anyone else, are God’s handiwork. I am truly amazed by His work.
Jim Sproul
Hi Jim,
I was wondering… di you think it matters which way you use these persica hybrids? Do they work better as a pollen parent or a seed parent or does the blotch seem to disappear when used as a pollen parent etc (or is it a straight recessive gene as I think you have mentioned before)? Most the crosses I’ve looked at seem, from memory, to always use the persica hybrid a the seed parent. Sorry if this has been covered…
(except hardii… which is clinophylla x persica)
Hi Simon,
No, I don’t think that it matters which way you use the persica parent - pollen or seed. ‘Tigris’ was the seed parent for everything successfully crossed with it, but all of my first repeat bloomers from “Tiggle”, ‘Persian Sunset’, and H65-2 were the result of using them as pollen parents.
Regarding recessive vs. dominant. The Hulthemia blotch gene(s) seem to behave mostly as a “dose dependent”, dominant type gene - meaning that in tetraploids, where only one (of 4) chromosomes carries the blotch gene(s), the blotch is generally small and lacks intensity. As the “dose” is increased, the blotch is larger and more intense. I am finding, however, that the blotch gene(s) behave as recessives to certain color types in roses. When the Hulthemias are crossed with certain dark yellow and creamy colors, the blotch is almost nonexistant in the offspring. For example, I crossed some of my best
Hulthemia, repeater bloomers (K206 and K201) with a bright yellow miniature seedling of mine, code named K29, this past year. Between the two crosses, there were 914 seeds, with more than 400 seedlings. I thought that I would “for sure” have lots of yellow hulthemia seedlings with red eyes. There has not been a single one. I think that there have been about 5 seedlings with small blotches, but those seedlings were not yellow and the blotches were very faint. It was a very unsuccessful cross to say the least. I think that I will try using some of these in future crosses, even though the blotches are faint. I’m guessing that the yellow color in ‘Tigris’ and others is a different yellow than what is in K29. It seems that whatever is happening, it is not straight forward and simple…
Jim Sproul
I’ve made my last crosses with Persian Sunset today.
Only 4 little flowers. I didn’t sacrifice neither seed nor pollen. I had to carefully remove the anthers and not damage the plant.
I only had Cafe Ole pollen ready at hand that was very fresh.
I did make about 6 crosses of Persian Sunset’s pollen on Livin’ Easy.
I lack success because most often… my PS blooms before I get to it. Not this year… constantly went out to see it.
My seedlings always die too because I forget to water or because someone kicked the pot by mistake or the neighbor’s fruit tree drops its fruit on to the pots on windy days. I had so much Queen Elizabeth X PS seeds before…
This year I have just one single PS X Betty Boop seedling. But the days are soooo hot now and I don’t know if I can transplant them without shocking it. I will need to take my risk.
Jim,
About your loss of blotch in all the seedlings from that one yellow rose. From my observations, I would definitely say that there are inhibitors (of anthocyanin pigment in the flower) that act as “dominant” whites [or yellows].
For example, in rugosas, I think whites are typically recessive to pinks, but… all F1 seedlings from pink Rosa rugosa crossed with yellow Rosa xanthina were light yellow - no pinks. There seems to be a dominant inhibitor coming from xanthina that suppresses the pink pigment. Spinosissima had a somewhat similar lightening effect when combined with rugosa, although there is usually still a very light pink still present around the edges. The rugosa ‘Agnes’ might be another case - although I don’t know what color the rugosa parent of ‘Agnes’ was.
So, with various influxes of genes from species of the Pimpinellifoliae (esp. spinosissima and foetida), it wouldn’t surprise me at all to find dominant inhibitors of anthocyanin floating around in the modern rose gene pool.
Tom
I don’t know if anyone has ever gotten red blotches using Baby Love but every one of my crosses last year using Baby Love X Persian Sunset and Persian Sunset X Baby Love were either all yellow or reddish with yellow where the red blotch should be. I have not used Baby Love this year with Persian Sunset. Maybe Baby Love is another yellow which inhibits the red blotch.
Patrick
Enrique, good luck on your seedlings! It is true that most of the Hulthemias have their first blooms earlier than roses, sometimes making it difficult to do the crosses that you planned ahead of time.
Tom, thanks for sharing your observations! They seem to agree with what I am seeing. Today, I did have a good yellow with a red blotch (will post photo later), but it came via other unrelated crosses than my K29 seedling.
Patrick, ‘Baby Love’ has been used successfully. Chris Warner’s ‘Tiggle’, is a seedling of ‘Baby Love’ and is yellow with a good red/orange blotch. All of the above photos are of seedlings that have ‘Baby Love’ in them except “H65-2”.
Jim Sproul
Harkness are releasing some Persica hybrids of their own; they don’t look as pretty as some of the ones Jim Sproul has bred.
I hope Heirloom Roses already have that one imported and ready to sell some time soon.
Malcolm, thanks for the comments and the Harkness link! I think that the ideal number of petals is about 10 for the Hulthemias to show off the best.
We are all indebted to dreamers like Alec Cocker and Jack Harkness who decided to try something so far out and outlandish - to combine Hulthemias with Roses. I know that some are putting them in the same genus now, but they really are quite different. It was incredible that a fertile link was found. It won’t be long and the Hulthemia roses will be everywhere and in every type of rose. For their ability to introduce such wide variation in petal coloring, I think that the Hulthemias are very exciting and will have much to offer.
Here are two more new 2009 seedlings. The first is a very small mini - slightly over 1/2" across. The second is probably my best yellow hulthemia and is also one of the largest blooms that I have seen on a new hulthemia seedling.
The above are “half sisters” and their only similarity is their coloring.
Jim Sproul