Eye spots and optical speculations

“In time I will bend them to my will! lol”

Hi Robert,

thats a good motto.

I also think now (as I wrote above, where the uv-light link was discussed), that the info for an eye spot could be spread more widely in the Eurosa than known so far.

What you have posted, seems to be an argument for that hypothetical thought.

I will do some uv-lightfotos (with my limited possibilities) of wild rose species and even hulthemia this season.

Funny, if we should get new insights, using this simple way.

Or - has anyone hereever seen an uv-pattern of a banksiae rose flower here before? :smiley:

Who knows what will appear on it … .



Robert, nice coloration with the blotch. I think that it was a great idea to try to combine the banksia seedling with Jim’s hulthemia descendent. I can not wait to see what comes out of the cross.


Arno, please let us know what you find. The single forms of banksia would be most interesting.

Thanks Liz. I have a feeling Moore’s Halos are already part of ‘Persian Sunset’ so perhaps this will strengthen that characteristic.

I’m finding that many of these seedlings have too many petals, even when bred to a single. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

Surely one of these combinations will do the trick.

I think I saw that one of the Moore hybrids did indeed have a Halo in them. But Im too tired to research right now.

Persian Sunset is deiniftely.

Persian Autumn is probably the case, too, since Anytime x Gold Badge is one of the originations of some of the halo roses.

Greetings Jadae:

As you live in zone 8b what do you use to treat your roses for blackspot and what do you use for spider mites and insect pests. When I was growing years ago there was a great fungicide called Benlate but it was determined to be toxic and taken off the market. Now I don’t know what to recommend to my zone 8b daughter. Many thanks. Bob Williams

Hi you!

Speculation, but: Is the halo and the eye spot caused by the same gene or group of genes, but one or few lacking genes added, it forms a really eye spot instead a halo?

I am thinking of a missing homeotic gene in the halo roses, when everything else is present.



Or … I am thinking of missing genes, while the main homeotic gene for the eye spot is present. …

Hi Robert. I use a combination of methods. I refuse to use anything carcinogenic such as many fungicides. I use good pruning methods, proper placement for air circulation (people often forget to do this), variety selection for my region, proper care and 1 early shower of neem oil + baking soda + soap treatment – foliar only.

That’s it.

Hey Robert, that photo is quite interesting. Without actually taking the petals apart, the darkened area looks more in keeping with the halo seen in Mr. Moore’s halo roses. I have seen similar coloring in ‘First Prize’ seedlings and others.

I have been kicking around some thoughts (thinking about writing an article for RHA) about what I am seeing in some of the hulthemia seedlings and I think I mentioned it above or in another thread. But it appears to me that there may be as many as six or seven zones on rose petals where inheritance of color might be independent of other zones. For example, the hulthemia blotch generally appears to be a dominant trait. However, it seems recessive to the zone where the halo shows up. In fact it seems that where the halo trait is strong, you find that the blotch is literally cut-off so that just the “top” part of the blotch is seen.

You might note on I89-2 (see link) that where the petal attaches, there are two areas that are very light in color where the blotch color is absence. I think those areas represent the halo trait. That zone may be larger or smaller in various roses. Some “halos” are more pigmented, while others are less pigmented.

In my hulthemia breeding, I am trying to minimize the “cut-off” effect by choosing hulthemias that show a stronger blotch at the petal apex. We’ll see what happens… My K201 is starting to bloom and should produce a nice display in about 1 week. I will try to take a photo when at peak bloom and will post it.

Jim Sproul

Link: sproulrosesbydesign.com/hulthemia_petals.htm

Just as Hulthemias are not considered to be true roses, but are closely enough related to crossbreed, can anyone tell me of other examples of roses being able to breed outside the immediate family so to speak; and what is considered to be the most extreme example of this – by way of example, is there any instance of anything as far out as, say, by way of analogy, strawberries or other berry relatives, etc?