I grew Jude the Obscure for several years when I lived in Alabama. It set hips well, but germination was almost non-existant. The three seedlings I can recall all came from a cross with a found pink OGR moss. I still have the largest of the three here on the Mississippi coast. It has never bloomed, although it is 7-8 years old.
Mark
Weird. I had no problem germinating the seeds. I cannot remember what I did to germinate things that winter. I seem to change my mind as to how to do things each year 
Cymbeline is one DA rose I miss, I had to remove it as it was in a bad location (not enough sunlight).
Any experiences with Cymbeline as a breeder?
I know for a fact that a cultivar’s ability to provide fertile seed can vary from region to region. Some varieties I grow that are dependable seed setters in my climate will not make viable seeds elsewhere. The age of the plant and the cultivation techniques used on it can have an influence as well.
Paul is absolutely correct. What works for one won’t necessarily work for another. We have to learn to work and optimize the virtues of the climate in which we live.
This is why I have always advised first time hybridizers to observe those cultivars that set hips easily in their climate and conditions and to grow out numbers of seedlings before vesting time directly in hybridizing. It will save a great deal of time and frustration.
Right on the mark, Robert. Wise words.
to grow out numbers of seedlings before vesting time directly in hybridizing<<<<<
Robert, what actually do you mean by this? Do you mean grow OP seedlings out first?
George
“Do you mean grow OP seedlings out first?”
Yes, especially if you are new to hybridizing or are exploring how a potential seed parent performs in your area.
Keep in mind some seed parents are less likely to set hips till they are established and not being actively forced with nitrogen.
While immature, or in an active state of achieving mature size, many roses will refuse to set hips. Some won’t form blossoms with normal reproductive parts until the plant is mature. Some won’t form hips until they are actually in a state of stress. (This has led me to ponder the epigenetic consequences of using a seed parent under stress, but that is topic for another discussion.)
It’s very important to observe any potential parent before vesting effort into attempting planned hybridization.
For instance I’ve currently got young repeat blooming diploid banksia descendants with abnormal stigma. I’ll wager they eventually set hips but no sense attempting them as seed parents till they are fertile. I actually kind of enjoy watching the metamorphosis I imagine to be occurring.
When I start finding OP hips then I will know I can begin experimentation. Till then I can use them for pollen.
Hybridizing roses is not a game for the impatient. As in other pursuits, excellence is in the details.
Using a resource like HMF can give you a clue as to how any potential parent might be utilized by looking at it’s reproductive history. This is one reason I eventually record most of my seedlings there whether they amount to anything or not. It’s a database that can be used to collect information.
Hi Robert. I like your logic.
George.
Hi Paul B.
You worte…
Golden Celebration is likely to be a better choice from the yellow section of the clan<<<<<<<<
In your opinion Paul, is GC better used as a seed parent or a pollen parent, or is there no difference in the results however it is used?
Also does anyone have an opinion on Austin’s ‘Scepter’d Isle’ …does it pass on any good qualities?
George, my favorite English rose, Jubilee Celebration, is from Golden Celebration. It uses GC as a seed parent. The similar Christopher Marlowe has GC as a pollen parent. GC seems to have done well when used both ways for a lot of hybridizers. Personally, I would use it depending on whether or not its mate is a good seed parent, too, or not.
‘Christopher Marlowe’ produces no pollen (too double… no anthers at all) for me. I am testing it as a seed parent this year.
Hi Jadae, and Hi Simon!
I spent about 3 hours at the rose farm in northern Sydney (Dural) today, only to come home with a Mary Rose that had RMV on many of it’s leaves which I only spotted whilst driving back home of course!! So it is going straight back to him tomorrow, and he will exchange for “something” else!!
Two months ago, I purchased a Golden Celebration, to replace my first GC which I shovel pruned due to very bad virus infection, (the worst virus in a plant I have ever seen in fact). Well this new GC has lost about 30% of it’s leaves now due blackspot. I am thinking that this amount of blackspot is probably unacceptable to be passing onto any breeding work for my climate. I may have to forget it as a breeder in my climate, and that’s too bad, as it has a gorgeous bloom, ALAS!
Am I being too fussy?
No… you aren’t… a lot of DAs are like that here. IMO most DA are completely unsuitable as parents for Australian roses… for many reasons… unless you are planning to put them with things like Teas or other species or near species that do well in hot humid environments… so I guess IMO they need to be used differently to achieve anything worthwhile and suitable for here. ‘Christopher Marlowe’ represents a significantly different type of DA that so far taps head seems to be growing pretty cleanly and strongly here. In two years it has formed a bush about 4ft wide and 3ft tall (will be posting an updated photo in HMF in the next few weeks as it is about to bloom enmasse). If it works as a seed parent maybe some great landscape roses can be bred from it. A friend of mine, David Clark, in NSW is breeding DAs with Teas such as ‘Comtesse de Labarthe’ and ‘Mons Tillier’ with great success… you can see one of his here: http://i83.servimg.com/u/f83/13/33/54/62/davidc10.jpg (‘Comtesse de Labarthe’ x ‘Wife of Bath’ - a whole lot of bath going on there!)). If I was going to use GC I would use it with fertile wichurana hybrids… I suspect wichurana figures strongly in ‘Christopher Marlowe’ or with Teas that are known to be fertile (see Tea book for this info). I also wonder how they’d go with bracteata…
Simon.
What you say is logical, my thinking about the Austins in this country very much agrees with your comments about them here. The Bracteata thing interests me also, I have a little cutting of the beast sitting by the window, I imagine it roots fairly easily?.. and I have a few embryos from it (OP seed) jumping for joy in the jar here by the computer, as standbys if the mum cutting doesn’t take.
It makes sense to use bracteata, doesn’t it, for our hot clime.
Mr Moore tried for a really long time ot get anything worthwhile from bracteata… I’m of the opinion that it’s a really long term project that I’ll probably pass on to my kids… and you’ll need plenty of room to trial anything you get. I’d be inclined to use other warm climate roses from the Tea/Noisette/China etc classes first. I’ve got acres to plant things out… so bracteata interests me… and if it, or any of its progeny, take off I’ll stick my goats on it … I’d be inclined to say bracteata is too much rose for the Northern suburbs of Sydney in most cases. It does root easily and produces plantlets off its roots. I’ve recently planted mine in a corner of one of my paddocks and in knocking it out of its pot I found in the few months I’ve had it (I bought it as a bare root rose last winter from Reliable Roses as a cutting grown plant) in the large pot its roots had almost filled it and there were small plants developing from the roots in a few places. One of these is now doing well in a small pot of its own. This has all already been said about bracteata on here though… it’s a toughie and if I didn’t have room to place it I would be letting someone else grow it and just ‘sampling’ pollen from it as I needed it. Laurie and Jean Newman of Reliable Roses produce bracteat by cutting as they have found it difficult to bud… in going for own root roses I reckon this is great… but I worry about how invassive and persistant it is.
Of course it is a beast, and not for the average garden in the suburbs, to be sure!
I have four on my list.
Joyce Barden
Constance Spry
Heritage
Jude the Obscure
Hi Jon,
Thanks for your ideas also.
Have you tried Joyce Barden in breeding, and if so what have you noticed it can or can’t do?
