For those who can remember the original thread about this, 0.013% Trifluralin was applied to this Mutabilis seedling at the cotyledon leaf stage. After looking quite sick for some time it has now burst away with new growth which is unlike Mutabilis foliage, a little rounder in shape and will probably be larger in size. It has flowered once and is about to again, flower structure is still single. There is a photo in page link if you want to have a peek.
Cheers Warren
This is an update of the Mutabilis seedling which was treated with Trifluralin.
[attachment 406 009.jpg]
when a young seedling effected by Trifluralin
To what it looks like now
[attachment 407 -Mutabtrifl.jpg]
Although it may not look much, my concern is what is inside at the cellular level. This will be sent to Melbourne for testing of its ploidy level, ensuring me that my technique was sound, as to carry out further work in the future of doubling.
Thanks for the update. Did you put anything else in the solution, such as DMSO or a surfactant?
Back last year I was given some OP Alister Stella Grey seeds, which I germinated and treated with Trifluralin.
[attachment 1032 ASGTRIF3.jpg]For scale is an Ozzie 5 Cent , similar in size to an US penny. Leaves on this seedling are very small and will not get much bigger than shown in this photograph, the plant is short and very compact around 1 1/2ft. The flowers are no bigger than an inch and similar in colour and structure to the cultivar. Richard Walsh who gave me the seeds, upon seeing it said there was a significant change to the original, pointing out its change in leaf size and growth height.
Warren, do your mutabilis always get this dark in color? I’ve never seen such intensity here and I thought we get a lot of sun in summer. Do the flowers start yellow?
Larry the Mutabilis seedling’s young blooms are the same colour red, with a light pink eye which lightens to white/pale pink. This seedling’s colour when viewed with the naked eye is Fire Engine Red. Mutabilis from which this came from, is of normal colours for this cultivar.
I used Trifluralin on a number of Alister Stella Gray OP seedlings, this one I kept.
[attachment 1179 AlisterStellaGray.jpg] As you can see, it is barely 10" high , and was this height last year as well. Flowers are similar in colour and structure to Alister Stella Gray, except for the size which is around 1" in diam.
looks like you like this Noisette.
have you any experience use Trifluralin to a Axillary bud?
Op Hanah I have used Trfluralin on Euphrates axillary buds, they took a while to recover but this year their growth is very good. There are some flower buds forming on these new shoots , so hoping something has happened.
thanks your experience Warren,i will try this winter and next spring?
Warren, the mutabilis seedling you showed earlier on this year (pictured further up in this thread) has a beautiful vivid red color.
Even though I am not myself planning on attempting chromosome doublings by any chemical method, I am still very interested in this work in principle.
Have you been able to confirm the somatic (and /or gametic) ploidy of that mutabilis seedling so far?
Neither the Mutabilis or the Alister Stella Gray seedlings have been tested, I have a contacted in one of the Universities in Melbourne who can test it for me.
[attachment 1191 008.jpg] When you see seedlings with distorted growth tips like this you would have to wonder what really happened inside that tiny plant, all I can say is, glad it was not me.
[attachment 1192 009.jpg]
Good luck with them both, it is not an easy path to follow I know that from reading others’ experiences here over the years, with their own attempts at trying out chromosome doublings.
In any case that red mutabilis baby (diploid or whatever it is) is VERY unusual as a mutabilis babe IMHO.
In my limited experience with mutabilis seedlings (OP only), the germination rate has been horribly low for me, and there has been a high failure rate due to some problem with most of them which did germinate to look distinclty bleached (perhaps lacking ability to produce chlorophyl?).
I am motivated more and more to explore the china and tea themes you have talked about since you started writing here, it has been thought provoking. Thank you.
Warren:
This looks like an interesting experiment. I’m wondering what your goal is.
I did a little reading about the doubling of chromosomes and saw that it is used commercially to induce fertility in sterile plants. I didn’t see anything related to rose, but I’m sure there are articles some place. What I saw were some experiments with daylilies, zinias as well as food crops like wheat and rye.
I like the resultant rose and I’m really interested to see where you take this.
Jeff at the moment it is all very experimental. I suppose my reason for doing this is to make Diploid species and cultivars very crossable with modern tetra’s without having to end up with most of the time a sterile triploid. I must say , some of the hybrid vigour displayed by triploids can be quite nice as well. Cultivars which can be hard to breed from, like Euphrates, I feel could be manipulated into becoming partially fertile by exposing them to certain concentrations of Trifluralin.
Hexaploids could have been made too if the OP seedlings of diploid parents were actually from crosses and were in fact triploids themselves (if they weren’t selfs). This in itself might be handly for crossing back to diploids to try and make a series of tetraploids.
Very cool. I hope it works out. I was facinated that treating with Trifluralin can/may result in doubling.
Here is a pic of the Mutabilis seedling, height is around 1 1/2 X 1 ft. Was crossed over Whiz Kid to create a line of Hybrid Musk types.
[attachment 1195 mutabilis.jpg]
That’s quite nice, Warren. Hopefully, it is as persistent a “monster” as Mutabilis is here!
