Dortmund - Theory

It came to me this morning that after having grown out a number of Dortmund seedlings that the unidentified seed parent of ‘Dortmund’ may in fact be, ‘Red Favorite’.

‘Lichterloh’ another first generation hybrid of ‘Red Favorite’ is very similar in color and form.

I’m just throwing this theory out there for those who have noticed that ‘Dortmund’ produces a number of Polyantha like offspring.

The dates also incidentally coincide.


I bet you are right. I have guessed that some type of orange is in it’s background and that polyantha was likely. I just wasnt sure which.

You’ve mentioned this before Jadae and I never forgot it. It just occurred to me what that poly/floribunda might have been.

Have you tried Rosarium Utersen, Robert? Im gonna try it again this year. I wonder if Kordes followed the same pattern with all of his older kordesii hybrids? The clusters of both are VERY “floribunda-ish.” I want to see what Rosarium Utersen has in store. I want to see if it is different or similar to Dortmund in seedling nature and to see if the wonderful foliage it has is dominant. Im going to try it on Sunsprite, Daybreaker, Yellow Ribbons and maybe Belle Epoque. Im trying to think of others that would offer R.U. some more modern colors and compact habit that set seed decently but that’s all I have now. I dont even know if Yellow ribbons sets very well since it is new this year so R.U. pollen will be my first test on it. I do know that, unlike Dortmund, R.U. doesnt set very well.

As a side note, Henry said he got mostly larger roses from Dortmund. I have seen the opposite but we do have a huge difference in pollen parent stock so that may be a factor.

I’ve never tried Utersen. Something about the color grates against my senses and it’s very thorny. I have it here but once I figure out a way to remove it, it’s gone. It probably is very clean but I’ve got so much going on I can do with one less rose.

I’m glad we all have different directions to explore. Putting it on yellow would seem to be the way to go. Of those listed only Sunsprite has occasionally set hips for me.

I’d be more likely to try it on something like ‘Westerland’.

I have Autumn Sunset. I do not have Westerland, though. Sunsprite always sets huge hips for me altho the germination is a wee bit low. The color of Rosarium Utersen is wonderful in the spring and fall here. It’s just that when the heat hits it gets too magenta-y. New Year is pretty easy to use. I could try that. I have some New Year x Baby Love’s starting to bloom. Maybe I should try it one one of those next year. Eh… the rain is letting up and I have to make decisions soon! Im definitely gonna try a few R.U. tho.

New Year x Baby Love sounds intrigueing. Yes, Utersen turns an unpleasant color to my eye in the heat.

Autumn Sunset would do nicely as well.

I did have results from this.

I have one Rennaisance x Rosarium Utersen. It has yet to blooom, but it retained the superior foliage. I think it is a once-blooming shrub. I have kept it in a large nursery container until it blooms and I can use the pollen. I definitely wont keep it forever, but it doesnt hurt to keep it around and waste 4 sq ft of property on it until then.

I have one from Tatton x Rosarium Utersen. It also has the superior foliage. It is a repeat blooming shrub. It has coral pink OGR blooms. I rather like this one. It’d probably be good for all you up north for getting more orange tones in your roses.

DO NOT try RU as a seed parent. The abort rate is astounding on it. Save yourself time and use it for pollen only.

I did keep one of the New Year x Baby Love seedlings. It never gets disease here, and it a crayon orange. It is highly double and has rather fluffy form. It is patio sized. I am waiting for it to mature to full size until I decide what to cross it with.