Hi. I recently having high hopes on a cross between Olivia Rose Austin (father) x Oklahoma (mother), as the rose hip growing. But after around one month and a week, the hip started to rot / aborted (I found it weird because most of the hips start to abort very quickly after two weeks of pollination). Out of curiosity, I opened the hip, there is already seed forming. So I would like to ask if there is hope for this seed to germinate? Besides, are there other factors that affect the abortion / rotting of hips? (Such as weather, fertiliser?) My Oklahoma rose have formed two hips previously, they also didnāt made it to three months of hips maturity period even after forming seeds.
1 Like
Welcome, Wuen! I doubt there is a lot of hope for that seed to germinate as it is very immature. But, you should experiment and plant it anyway just to see if the āconventional wisdomā is correct. Often, it appears hips abort because the seed they contain arenāt viable. There are also bacterial and fungal infections which can cause hips to abort, as well as weather issues. Perhaps Oklahoma may not be a very good choice of seed parent. In the 62 years since its introduction, Help Me Find-Roses lists ONLY three instances of its having been successfully used as a seed parent. Perhaps your chances may improve if you reversed the cross, using Oklahoma pollen on Olivia Rose Austin for seed? Itās worth a try. Good luck!
1 Like
Thank you for your kind reply. I am very new to rose hybridize, so I was trying out all possible crossing pollinations to observe which roses are good at setting hips. My main assumption of the rose hip abort is weather issue (it has been raining heavily lately in my region), I never thought of fungal or disease could be a threat. There are new forming buds of Oklahoma Rose and Olivia Rose Austin, looking forward to give them a new try. I will continue to update if there is any new progress on this seed, and if there are new success crossings.
1 Like
Hello and welcome!
Itās worth a shot, but I definitely wouldnāt get my hopes up. I attempted a lot of very premature hips last year just from snagging them off garden center roses or at parks while still green. I had very poor (albeit greater than 0%) germination rates, although part of that was due to rookie mistakes. I would imagine coming from an abort adds further difficulty.
And I definitely agree with roseseek that Oklahoma struggles as a seed parent. I have yet to have a hip make it to full maturity even under the best circumstances after two years of trying. Iām wondering if Mister Lincoln or Papa Meilland, both roses from the exact same cross as Oklahoma, might be more agreeable parents if you have the desire and means to acquire an alternative.
Iād still give it a shot though.
Best of luck!
3 Likes
The heavy rains can easily abort hips. They are fruit, just like an apple, peach, plum, etc. Too much water drowns the fruit, over fills it and it fails. Too much wet can also foster bacterial or fungal problems. Definitely try the crosses in both directions to develop a feel for what works well where you are.
2 Likes
Papa Meilland is a good, but not great seed parent. I might get around 25% hips carried to term. Nothing really spectacular from any crosses (yet).
2 Likes
The Advanced Search on HMF shows only three results using Papa Meilland for seed in its 62 years and a whopping 8 results using Mr. Lincoln seed. Iāve read previously how difficult Lincolnās seed is to germinate, though Iāve never tried it. Ollie Weeks seemed to like it as three of them were his; three were J. Benjamin Williamsā and one by Ernest Schwartz (mini breeder).
Welcome, Wuen, and good luck to you!
1 Like
I had no idea. Well, he works OK for me; I suspect the reason for the low number is marketability, rather than fertility. Here are a couple pictures, first x Sunsprite, and then x Candy Apple. Several others Iāve just disposed of.
5 Likes
Hi, itās been a while, I would like to update some of my observations on using them as mother plant.
After several attempts, I found that:
Oklahoma rose is indeed not a good seed bearer, even when she sets hip after pollinated, the hip will rotted a month or two later, though sometimes there are seeds forming (8 attempts, in one attempt I got 3 seeds, no germination so far).
Olivia Rose Austin never set hips out of my 15+ attempts. But her pollen has successful crossed with other roses.
And unfortunately, I have lost the seed (Oklahoma X Olivia Rose Austin).
I would also like to continue on this topic of discussion because I have a similar case. (Will seeds still germinate if the hip rot without reaching maturity)
Crossing:
Prince Jardinier (Father) X Lu Ning Xiang (Mother)
Timeline:
February 2 - Pollination
March 20 - Rose hip showed sign of rotting
March 22 - Collected 26 seeds
1 Like
Some seeds even past the floating test, this time I will make sure I wonāt lose the seeds and keep track of their performance. Hope to bring you guys good news in the future.
2 Likes
If you want to follow in the footsteps of Ollie Weeks then you should study the work of Herb Swim. It was Swim who laid out the genetic foundation for Weeksā roses and taught Ollie how to breed roses. Their partnership didnāt survive Ollieās ego but the momentum of their work together gave us some of the best very lollipop HTās.
You could also try to mitigate the considerable virus load that has accumulated in the Weeks and Swim hybrids over the decades. it was once possible to find VID copies because UC Davis maintained virus free propagation material at their Foundation Plant Services. Iām not sure what the status is of those cultivars now but its worth some effort to find them if you can.
I suggest starting with (VID if possible) copies of every Weeks and Swim release you can lay your hands on and cross matrix them to generate a rejuvenated breeding pool rather than trying to work with the āoriginalsā. Be sure to include those with Happiness in their lineage. Happiness was the source of a lot of the Swim magic, though also consider roses with Baby Chateau in their ancestry, a progenitor of Happiness.
These will all require a lot of life support in the form of fungicides so as a breeding target a major improvement would be disease resistance. Study David Zlesakās work to choose partners having multiple forms of disease resistance genes. Also consider partnering those rejuvenated breeders with R. virginiana.
3 Likes
Thank you for your insightful recommendations, that really enlightened me a lot. I have a soft spot for hybrid tea rose, and Oklahoma rose has many traits that I desire (bloom form, fragrance, colour)
to hybridize. I will look into the documents and videos I can find, and plan a more structure rose selections for hybridize.