Difference between Damask perpetuals and Portlands?

Are damask perpetuals Autumn damasks? Would this mean rosa Quatre saisons is a damask perpetual?

Sorry if this is a stupid question

Hello James_D !

Here is a little article concering this question: Damask Perpetuals, or Portlands - The Friends of Vintage Roses

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Hi Roseus

Thanks for finding this article, I had also stumbled across this. However it is still pretty vague. My understanding is that the original Portland rose was Quatre saisons x Gallica officinalis. So does this mean to be a Portland is to be an autumn damask mixed with a Gallica that reblooms (portlands seem to rebloom more than autumn damasks) or is it that you breed different damasks and gallicas with the Portland rose itself? A damask perpetual to me sounds like autumn damasks (can re bloom) so is the difference that these damasks don’t include Quatre saisons in the lineage… Or they don’t include Gallicas? Really finding it hard to find the difference. People may say they are called the Portland’s because of history, so the duchess of Portland is named so as it was given to/owned by the duchess of Portland. Is that the only difference are they the same but some were bred in relation to this historical figure. I’ve gone down a big rabbit hole here

Hello James_D ! Enclosed are a few brief comments:

The mystery of the Portland rose has been solved by DNA analysis. They were once thought to contain “Chinese blood”, but now DNA analysis has clearly established that they are in fact hybrids of R. Gallica and Autumn Damasks, from which they have inherited their repeated flowering behavior.

In addition, DNA analyses also state that Autumn Damasks are a natural double cross of R. gallica with R. moschata, which in turn was crossed with R. fedtschenkoana. I suspect that the double-crossing behavior and associated segregation may explain the even greater remontancy of the Damask Perpetuals / Portland roses, since R. gallica blooms only once. Later hybrids are crossed with R. chinensis.

I think that there are still many questions in this context that need to be clarified in the near future.


Thanks for your research, I have also read these statements. Effectively I’m fascinated by them and is what I’m going to be focusing on this year

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