I’ve been seeing numerical designations for names of seedlings from some of you and wondered if there was a ‘standard’ designation system that you are all using. Could someone give me an explanation about how your naming system works? I’ve pretty much been using abbreviations of the combined parents but like the numerical system I’m seeing, ie: 42-03-01. Thanks!
Rob
Everyone makes up their own. What works in your time and space is what designates your “system”. Personally, I methodically wholesale everything, which some do not like, but it works for me.
I’m not sure what you mean by you “methodically wholesale everything” Jadae.
Wholesale and commercial worlds have something core in common, which is to make effort as efficient as possible for the largest number of things/tasks/people/etc. within a specific frame of time.
For example, and I do switch my method yearly depending on factors, I will disparate, recorded mixed pollens onto a single mother and only give that mother a single numbers (lets says #37). The seeds will then be collected wholly under that number. Any resulting seedlings will be then labeled #37 and kept growing as a whole unit (either bunched up or in a row). In the unlikely event after 1-2 years of culling that more than 1 remains, the 2nd would be called #37b-10. 10 could be for 2010, ie. the year of conception. That is a basic example of keeping the system as wholesale as possible in order to keep things efficient, inexpesnive and headache-free. The more tangents you add to anything, unless efficiently streamlined and grouped, the less “wholesale” something becomes.
Great explanation Jadae, thank you.
No problem, and wow that you could read that. I woke up and typed away =/
Rob,
I have been using the same system Ralph Moore used for so many years; a coding like the one you quoted.
For example:
seedling 112-04-08 indicates that it was cross #112, made in 2004, and is seedling number 8 from that cross. Some who use this system assign the cross number (the first set of the three numbers) at the time they make the cross, so that the ascending numerical values preserves some data about (relatively) when the cross was made. I’m not that organized; I number the crosses at the time that hips are collected, so the first value indicates what order crosses were gathered. As far as the third number is concerned, there is more than one way to record that data as well: some people do not assign an individual identifying number to their seedlings until they actually flower, so for some, the third value indicates when, chronologically, that individual first flowered. (relative to its siblings) Again, I am not that organized; I simply number each selection at some point after they are potted up into gallon pots, so they have a number that assigns them information identifying them as an individual. That is enough data for me. Other people prefer to preserve more data in their records. Its a matter of what works for each person.
Paul
Thank you for the explaination Paul! I’ve wondered for a long time how Moore, you and others were using the numerical system. Makes a lot of sense.
Regards,
Rob
I was going to use the same system Paul used but then found that when searchnig on HMF in looking in places likes descendant lists, you can get roses bred by Mr Moore, Paul, and others using the same system together and not know which is which. So I decided to use something similar but start them all with SV and because I tend to throw out most seedlings for one reason or another I don’t have many left at the end of the season so I just number them off from 1 to 10 (for example), and not worry about the cross number… so I get seedlings with codes like SV-2009-8. I don’t assign a code name until I’ve decided to keep a seedling on a bit longer and until then I just label the pots with the actual cross. I’ve only recently settled on this system and have a number of variations around that range from the simple to the straight out stupid 
… I really hate paper work and can’t keep a diary for quids (HMF has really helped in this regard… a place to log seedlings and their vital stats that automatically pedigrees them as I go)… so in the end I often favour nicknames instead (like 'Test Tube Baby Love)… all means the same thing in the end.
Simon,
I think for my purposes I proably should keep it simple. I too dislike paper work…I’ve got enough of that at work. lol I work on a much smaller scale than someone like Paul or Kim and the number of seedlings that are kept is low. Thinking more about this since posting I realize that I like to have a good idea of what the cross was by looking at the tag. For example, my ‘PMND’ is ‘Pink Meidiland’ x R. nitida ‘Defender’. What I need to add is an identifier for the year and what number seedling it was from the cross. So the above could be something like ‘PMND-07-01’. Everything I need to know on the tag. I’ve also noticed that on some codes there is the breeder’s last name in ().
Thanks for all of the input guys!
‘PMND-07-01’
I’ve been using this kind of system for years. It works for a few generations, then it gets unwieldy.
‘PMND-07-01’
Good point Robert. The first generation would work very well with that kind of system but what do I do for more complicated crosses… Will need to ponder this some more. Thank you.
Rob
Whatever hits “keeper” status gets a nickname. That nickname is then recorded in the idea book. I use soft bound art sketch tablets, and clip boards with paper for any inspirations while outside. So when I go to create a master cross list for that year, the nicknames are then used, which have been previously recorded in one of the sketch books. This means that the generated number is new until itself (#37, for example). Giving it a year code when processes seeds then gives it a place in time (#37-10, for example). And, so, like I said, if this number is never culled, it eventually becomes a nickname. A nickname can be very simple. Selfridges x Freedom, a stud Ive used over and over, is Self-Fre. If a 2nd had ever been named it could have been Slutty Bunny for all that it matters, because the nickname is attached to a recorded pedigree. And yeah, I use the nicknames in records to.
This is again the case of what works best for oneself though. I, personally, can recall names and faces like lightning in a bottle. I have a highly global-visual mind (lol they tested me at PSU one day for free haha), so it is easy for me to “put a name to a face” inside my head. I was born that way. We were all born different. My crop buddy, one of my closest friends, is far more systemically logical, and so his method is obviously different.
Jadae, I do the same thing.
When acronym type abbreviations become too long, seedlings get nicknames.
Tools like HMF make life easy in terms of recording more detailed information.
This wouldn’t likely work very well for those utilizing larger numbers of crosses.
I even assign nick names to crosses shared with me by others.
For instance Paul B. shared one of his seedlings which he calls ‘174-02-17’.
I can’t for the life of me remember that, so I call it SHAXOOY, by which I easily remember the parentage which is, Sheri Anne x Out of Yesteryear.
It’s easy enough to retrieve Paul’s seedling code when I need it using HMF.
lol I have given yours nicknames. #9 in the fridge right now is Robert’s #4 x Pretty Lady, according to the sheets. Can you believe the seeds traveled 400 miles just to sit in the fridge for 3 months?
Jadae, #9 is a heck of a lot easier than ARMLB2XPRL which is what I would call that cross.
Btw, if I kept seed that long they chances are they would be germinating by now.
I went out this morning and was pleased to see the rains here have stimulated a new bout of germination.
Much of this latest batch gigantea derivatives.
Yeah, they got shucked late this year. They were shucked from hips one month ago. I gave my best friend explicit instructions not to do anything to the hips except stick them in the fridge. I let the seeds intentfully mold in the fridge in order for the natural chemicals to degrade. Now, as of 3 days ago, they are in peat/perlite filled containers in the fridge, waiting to germinate within +/- 2 months. Living in transition has definitely created some, uhm… “interesting design constraints” … as they say.
I look forward to the Rosa gigantea hybrids! I am not a huge fan of most cultivated tea roses, and likewise for some of the china types, but I am a huge fan of that species and some of the chinas when done “right”. I am also a fan of the banksia work. I cannot wait to see how people will delve into the other uncommon SE asian species
Jadae,
I’ve been impressed by your memory and recall as exhibited in threads on here. Wish I was more like you…my mind is like a sieve. lol
You do not want my mind. Like I said in a speech recently, “My mind is like a fractal.” Seriously, it is like a lightning bolt that I cannot control, flying along an endless spider web. I like it. It is “me” but I could seriously be tranquilzed like an elephant sometimes. I often gravitate towards heavy, introverted logical types because they make me feel sane, centered. Everything has its vices and virtures, ya know? I imagine Kim is similar. I imagine most extroverted types attracted to scientific realms can identify.
My memory specifically though is likely partially inborn and also probably because of my disorders. I produce an amazingly abnormal amount of adrenaline. I have to take a huge daily dosage of Propranolol to keep the amount of adrenaline my body produces to a somewhat normal level. For those that do not know, adrenaline and memory exist hand in hand. Its a survival mechanism from the dawn of our time. But it is a specific type of memory, full of speed, force and utility. Other types of memory require relaxation to properly work. That is why med students will take low doses of propranolol or have a little wine before an exam. The relaxation utilizes a more diverse, spread out memory. Its like the spider web of knowledge is connected, but the lightning bolt is diffused at a lower voltage all over. I have never failed a test but I can easily fake one too, which is just as bad. In essence, I would take your mind over mind. I’d love to just be able to relax.
I surely hope Jim S. is laughing by now. I think he is in medicine, if I recall.
wow, after reading you message…I’d take my mind too. lol Although, I have issues with memory, which can be weird when I’m are reading a book I’ve already read or seeing a movie I’ve already seen and not remembering it. It’s like seeing/reading it again for the first time. lol It’s annoying though when I can’t remember an actor/singer/group/author’s name or the title of a book/movie/song. I must say I am able to relax. Merry Christmas.
Rob