Im curiou as to about R. laxa, Enrique stated that it was repeat blooming (Re: R. fedtschenkoana Ploidy)
but my litriture states its as once flowerig. Is my litriture wrong? and do F1 generation hybrids of R. laxa express repeat blooming where the other parent repeats?
Hello,
R.Laxa does not rebloom, it is R.Fedtschenkoana
that does.
Best wishes,
Pierre.
Pity, white flowerd repeat blooming tetraploids seem to be rare amoung the species.
I have compiled a list of species (shown below) that express repeat blooming in F1 generation hybrids, where the other parent repeats. Can anyone add to this?
Rosa arkansana. (28, 14)
Colour: Strong Pink, Blush Pink
Height: Low Shrub below 2.5 feet (0.75 m)
Scent: Other scent: Musk, Myrrh, Violets, Lemon, etc.
Introduction: Pre 1700
Usda zone: Zone 5 (-22
There seems to be a difering of opinion on this
(see Re: R.Fedtschenkoana Posted by Paul G. Olsen [email] on Mon, Apr 5, 2004
Rosa laxa definitely repeats its bloom. Therefore, if the other parent repeats the progeny will also repeat their bloom.)
I have looked on http://www.helpmefind.com/roses/ for information on R. laxa decendents but were unable to find any F1 generation hybrids of R. laxa and a definate repeater. Can anyone tell me how long the flowering period lasts. generaly species with flowering periods of 4 months or more tend to express repeat blooming in there ofspring, provided the other parent repeats.
Rosa laxa flowers for several weeks and then may repeat in late summer/early fall.
If you check the pedigree of ‘John Cabot’, you will note that a ‘Masquerade’ x Rosa laxa selection is part of it. This is Robert Simonet’s ‘Pink Masquerade’ that wasn’t officially registered. ‘Pink Masquerade’ is a high quality, double pink cultivar with repeat bloom that is not quite hardy to Zone 3. Because of its high quality, I’m not totally convinced the parentage is correct. However, in Simonet’s writings about his rose breeding programs I have not seen any evidence that he developed any F2 Rosa laxa selections. Dr. Frank Skinner also wrote of using a Simonet Rosa laxa/HT hybrid in his breeding programs. According to Skinner, this hybrid “bloomed from June until frost.” Again, there is no concrete evidence that the parentage is correct. Skinner used Simonet’s Rosa laxa/HT hybrid to develop ‘Isabel Skinner’, which is relatively hardy to Zone 3. More work needs to be done with Rosa laxa to see how well the F1 progeny repeats its bloom.
Jinks, What offspring of R. nitida repeats? At one point one nursery was advertising Corylus, a rugosa x nitida hybred as repeat blooming. Since then, they have gone back to saying it is only a once bloomer. Just wondering if that was your example.
Also, I have a seedling from OP R. laxa seed. It has never repeated for me in the 3-5 years it has been blooming. Since it is from OP seed, it could be a hybred, but it does seem to match the description of the species.
Joan
Pierre, Jinks, there has been some confusion. There are two roses that are called R. laxa. One is a rootstock some where in Europe. It does not bloom and is related to the dog briars. And then there is R. laxa (Retzius), but people nearly always drop out Retzius since it appears that the R. laxa rootstock has been forgotten.
So avoid confusion, R. laxa (Retzius) repeats bloom, and R. laxa does not repeat bloom.
Applejack is related to R. laxa (Retzius) and many hybridizers are using it. Greenmantle Nursery offers R. laxa (Retzius) but it will be many years before you are able to get it. I’ve got my name on the “waiting” list. It seems that this rose is very hard to propogate and slow to build up.
Joan, there are a number of R. nitida offspring that express repeat blooming, Corylus being one ot them.
Others are:
Carlsham, hansa x R. nitida.
Rigg, shneezwerg x R. nitida.
R x rugotida, R. rugosa x R. nitida.
Nyveldt’s white, (R. rugosa x R. cimmamomea) x R. nitida.
As I stated above, I have noticed that species with flowering periods of 4 months or more tend to express repeat blooming in there ofspring. R. nitida fits this profile, particularly where R. rugosa is present in the other parent. My main source for this information is http://www.helpmefind.com/roses/.
I intend to work with some of these species to explore this aparent tendancy. It may be a few years before I can state this with confidence, gained from first hand experiance, but I’m prity convinced by the evidance on paper.
Can anyone bare this out from experiance?
PS.
Thanks for the clarificatin Enrique, Ill add R. laxa (Retzius) to the list.
PPS
Sorry Paul G, forgot to thank you for the info, it was apreciated.
Jinks,
Rosa nitida does not repeat its bloom and therefore obviously hybrids with repeat blooming roses will not have progeny that repeat. The ‘Carlsham’ cultivar that Robert Erskine developed you listed has disapeared, but Percy Wright’s ‘Aylsham’ of the same parentage and superior quality is still in existence. I have never seen ‘Aylsham’ repeat its bloom. And regarding ‘Neveldt’s White’, I’ve always been suspicious about its parentage. I doubt it has Rosa nitida in its parentage.
Rosa multibracteata also does not repeat its bloom or at least it didn’t in Zone 8 where I grew it. It’s one of my favourite species though.
Rosa spinosissima altaica will repeat in late summer/early fall. Its hybrid with ‘Harison’s Yellow’ ('Hazeldean) can repeat in late summer/early fall. Interestingly, when Robert Erskine crossed ‘Hazeldean’ with ‘Beauty of Leafland’ (a Rosa spinosissima hybrid with only Rosa laxa the other species in its pedigree) and produced ‘Prairie Peace’, this cultivar repeats even better than ‘Hazeldean’.
Rosa foliolosa may not repeat its bloom, but it has the longest blooming period (6 weeks or so) of any relatively hardy species rose that I know of. I seem to recall its hybrid with Rosa rugosa (‘Basye’s Purple’) as having repeat bloom.
Paul
In my garden I do get six weeks of bloom from R. primula and scattered fall bloom ( this year its bloom is going to be much later as we moved it and the heat may shorten its bloom period.)
I do have R. laxa from Skinners’ Nursery. We’ve just moved it but should be able to share suckers in a year or two. I am fortunate to have Joan’s O.P. laxa which in its first year was more vigorous than the yearling from Skinner was a year later.
I also have Pink Masquerade from Skinner which repeated ALL summer last year as did Isabel Skinner from Sequoia. I mention these repeats because Buck’s Applejack hasn’t repeated in my zone 6b garden in three years, nor has the “Climbing Country Dancer” from Skinner which bears a really strong resemblance to Applejack.
I will have pollen to share in a month or two.
Ann
Rosa foliolosa sounds intresting ‘Basye’s Purple’ is listed as a repeater, and I a found document titled “a report of the conference on genetics from 1906” where a Maurice de Vilmorin from Paris recalls a cross he made with R rugosa x Rosa foliolosa that flowerd from july to first frost. It also looks an atractive rose in its own right, worth exploring I think.
While looking for R. foliolosa I came across an extract from “the book of roses 1838” detailing an Irish species, R. hibernica (hexaploid ((42 chromosomes)) which is said to flower from early June to mid November its also said to resemdle R spinosissima in poor soils and R canina on loam. also worth exploring.
Anyone have experiance of growing, or working with R. hibernica?
Anne’s comment about her ‘Applejack’ not repeating is interesting. Modern Roses and the Pickering Nurseries catalogue says it does. Since ‘Applejack’ is a Rosa laxa F2 hybrid, it should repeat its bloom. I think its important to note that according to Griffith Buck’s experience, the progeny of Rosa laxa crossed with repeat blooming cultivars did not repeat their bloom. But again, I think more work needs to be done with Rosa laxa and a wide range of rose types to see if F1 hybrids will repeat their bloom.
I have Applejack from Pickering & I live in the area. I let the hips develop so I don’t expect much rebloom. My plant reblooms in the fall from new canes despite the hips.
I am sooooo happy… I made my first “seedling” cross… The cross was (Applejack X Iceberg) X (Queen Elizabeth X Basye’s Legacy). To actually cross seedlings of my own is very exciting! It made my day…
Applejack x Iceberg was one of my first crosses with Applejack. It is a dusky pink and semi double. Scent is good, but odd. It smells “pollenly”… It’s hard to discribe. It’s like clover and musky at the same time. Queen Elizbeth x Basye’s Legacy just bloomed for me this year. It blooms in clusters and are scentless. It is not as disease resistant to mildew as I assumed, nor is it thornless, but I kept it because I had a vision of this rose creating purple roses much later in the future. QE x BL flowers look just exactly like Betty Prior, but perhaps it is slightly bit more carmine in color.
I don’t really care what I get from this cross of two seedlings… Anything would be good.
About rebloom inheritance…I don’t think it is a simple as we’ve all read or heard. I’ve often seen reblooming described as being a simple recessive trait.
Keep in mind that most of the following cases are not large population studies. They are often just one hybrid, but of very sure parentage.
Here are a few complications to the “simple recessive” theory, from my experience:
1.) ‘Fragrant Cloud’ crossed with Rosa carolina (which has a main bloom on old growth and then reblooms at the tips of the new canes) has given all once-blooming seedlings so far. Actually the largest seedling hasn’t bloomed yet and is about 3 feet tall after two seasons of growth.
2.) Rosa rugosa crossed with this same Rosa carolina has given a seedling which bloomed for its first time, at the tip of its one new cane, just this past fall. (In contrast, from what I’ve read, Rosa rugosa crossed with a reblooming Rosa arkansana gave only once-bloomers.)
3.) A wild found multiflora seedling (with extra petals - so possibly carrying a hidden “recessive” rebloom gene) produced a single seedling when crossed with Rosa rugosa. This hybrid reblooms at the tips of all of its new canes. I’ve read that the hybrid of rugosa with arvensis has occassional rebloom also.
4.) The same multiflora seedling crossed with a reblooming China produced a once-blooming hybrid. The F2 population from this cross has some repeaters in it.
In summary, I think that there is probably more than one gene involved in the inheritance of reblooming. It doesn’t seem to be as simple as a single dominant/recessive type of inheritance.
I wonder at the environmental component of rebloom. Here R. moschata mature bushes to bloom May til fall. Blooms start at a very different time than that reported for England even in terms of hours of sunlight.
The Morocco Rose from ARE is reported to be a once bloomer and they introduced it and sell it and should know “all” about it, yet mine from them has consistant and fairly heavy fall bloom as well as spring bloom.
My geographic address is “south” or at least warm; in winter we are the southeastern end of the continental polar air masses and get to feel their sting as well. My canes winter over on all the roses I grow so I’ve become very interested in seeing what varies from the norm and maybe some day, I’ll know why.
Ann
I tend to agree with you on that point Tom.
I have the susspision that while the rules govening repeat flowering, and fertility aplly in most cases, things are not as strait forward as we would like, particularly where species are concernd.
Still, all part of the of it.
Oops, forgot a word.
Still, all part of the fun of it, is wat was intended.