Conned or a Genuine mistake? Some Answers please!

Dear Rose-Lovers and surfers at RHA web site,

There is no point in expressing my love of Roses and now after retirement wanted to press ahead with my long held ambition that I would try my best to have a go at hybridizing the 350 different (and 600 in total) roses I have in my small to medium sized front and back gardens. (I am notorious at planting lots of roses in a small place such as 9 Mr Lincolns in one square meter). So after a long search and tinkering on the internet I decided to joint the RHA and become a member almost 3 months ago.

The main web page http://rosebreeders.org/ of the RHA says

Welcome to the
Rose Hybridizers Association Home Page
These pages © 2000-2012 by The Rose Hybridizers Association. All rights reserved.


• About the Rose Hybridizers Association
• Become a member of the Rose Hybridizers Association or
o Sign in to download the RHA Newsletter Archive, individual issues from the archive, hybridizing manuals and more.
• Purchase the RHA Rose Hybridizing Manuals
• Purchase the RHA Newsletter Archive (starting from 1969)
• How to Hybridize Roses
• Articles on Rose Breeding
• Notable Rose Hybridizers
• Forum - for discussing topics related to hybridizing roses
• Member Showcase - photos of roses hybridized by RHA members
• American Rose Center Trial Grounds Winners
• RHA Constitution
• Links to other sites


About the Rose Hybridizers Association
Rose Hybridizers Association was organized in 1969 by thirteen members who passed a hand-written newsletter from person to person. Today we have more than 200 members in more than 20 countries.
Our members have introduced more than 500 new roses to the commercial market.
One of our members was awarded the coveted All-American Rose Selection (AARS, 1996) for his rose named St. Patrick. Another member was awarded both the AARS (2000) and the Anerkannte Deutsche Rose (ADR, 2002) for his rose named Knockout.
The Rose Hybridizers Association supports our members in several ways:
• Our RHA Newsletter reaches members every spring, summer, fall and winter. An archive of past issues is available for sale.
• Members may borrow books and other materials from the RHA Lending Library.
• The RHA, in cooperation with the American Rose Society, has established a Test Garden Project at Shreveport, LA, and the Boerner Botanical Gardens in Hales Corners, WI.
• Our forum provides a meetingplace where members from all over the world share information and resources.
While some rose breeders find fame and fortune from their rose creations, most will not. Breeders do experience the wonder of seeing their own seedlings unfurl the petals of their first little buds, unique in all the world and possessed of boundless hope and promise.
Growing and breeding roses is fun. We encourage you to try it.
"

I am very serious about sharing and exchanging info about thus extending my knowledge about “rose hybridizing” and wanting to be surrounded by people who have the same passion I did not see any harm in paying upfront for 3 years membership. So I become a member around the end of September 2014.

When I clicked on to the Become a member of the Rose Hybridizers Association I got the following registration page at Enjoy the Benefits of RHA Membership.. The contents of the page are

"
Enjoy the Benefits of RHA Membership.
If you already have an account on our website, please login to continue

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If you are renewing an active or expired membership please LOG IN before you renew.

Active membership will be extended by the term of the renewal period. Any changes to your newsletter choice will begin when the renewal takes effect.

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Two Year, Airmail $24 USD
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"

So excited with it all as a new member of the RHA, I immediately checked what those links are about and downloaded and saved a local copy of all info that were and are still available on the web page including the “Rose Hybridizing for Beginners” and the “Rose Hybridizing - The Next Step”.

Then, as a newbie, I started to surf inside the RHA web site clicking onto all of the links trying my damn best to understand what it is all about going backwards and forwards between http://rosebreeders.org/ and Please login. And also I was trying to find out how on earth I get to the Forum’s site Rose Hybridizers Association Forum - Frequently Asked Questions from Please login and vice versa without having to type the extra at the address bar. I found out there is really no way of getting from one to another. But I took all in stride and put it to my “the dummy newbie” status.

Then while at http://rosebreeders.org/ I clicked onto the Purchase the RHA Rose Hybridizing Manuals link and found myself at RHA Instructional Manuals,
Purchase the RHA Rose Hybridizing Manuals_2.jpg
Since I see myself still logged on, I thought the offer of the manuals were different than what I already downloaded a copy after becoming a member so I paid the amounts requested on the page for the two manuals plus the international currency exchange costs. Then waited for an electronics copy to arrive via email as advertised on the web site. Nothing arrived.

At this point I started to have the feeling of “something is not quite right”. I started to pay attention to the meaning of the wordings used at http://rosebreeders.org/ and Please login.

I logged out and while I was at http://rosebreeders.org/ I clicked onto the Purchase the RHA Rose Hybridizing Manuals link and found myself at the page below:
Purchase the RHA Rose Hybridizing Manuals_2.jpg
The contents of the page is below: "
RHA Instructional Manuals
If you already have an account on our website, please login to continue

  • Please choose:

Rose Hybridizing for Beginners - booklet $5 USD
Start with this booklet to learn the basics of rose breeding.
Includes a printed copy of the manual mailed to your address plus immediate access to download the digital version with expanded color content.

Rose Hybridizing - The Next Step - booklet $12 USD
Companion volume to “Rose Hybridizing for Beginners”, with chapters contributed by 20 experienced rose hybridizers.
This booklet covers advanced topics including rose genetics, care & evaluation of seedlings, rose trials, and propagation.
Includes a printed copy of the 82 page manual mailed to your address plus immediate access to download the digital version with expanded color content.

\

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"
In here I clicked onto the section where it says" If you already have an account on our website, please login to continue". I clicked onto the login link and got the login page. Naturally as soon as I entered my login details I got the following page:
Purchase the RHA Rose Hybridizing Manuals_2.jpg
In this page it said:
"
Logged in as cem22alya. Logout
• Main Page
• Add/Renew Subscription
• Payments History
• Edit Profile
• Helpdesk
RHA Instructional Manuals
You are logged-in as cem22alya. Logout to signup as new user.

  • Please choose:

Rose Hybridizing for Beginners - booklet $5 USD
Start with this booklet to learn the basics of rose breeding.

Includes a printed copy of the manual mailed to your address plus immediate access to download the digital version with expanded color content.

Rose Hybridizing - The Next Step - booklet $12 USD
Companion volume to “Rose Hybridizing for Beginners”, with chapters contributed by 20 experienced rose hybridizers.

This booklet covers advanced topics including rose genetics, care & evaluation of seedlings, rose trials, and propagation.

Includes a printed copy of the 82 page manual mailed to your address plus
immediate access to download the digital version with expanded color content.

  • Payment System
    Pay online for immediate access to membership benefits. Pay with your debit card, credit card or Paypal account.
    You will be transferred to a secure page for payment

Mail your Payment Pay by Check or Money Order
"

I then realised that I have paid twice for the membership and the manuals that are available for free as part of the membership deal for anyone who pays upfront and become a member. So I immediately raiseda “ticket” at the help desk and asked for a help and refund along the way. Below is the conversation:

"
Administrator, more than 2 month ago
Hi, welcome to the RHA.

The booklets are not automatically part of your membership. When you bought the Next Step booklet you also received access to the download version. Right now only ‘The Next Step’ is available for download although printed copies of both booklets will also be sent by mail. We are also planning to put the Beginners booklet online but we are not sure when that will happen. When it does you will also be able to download that.
[−]
cem22alya (N Alya Alvey), more than 2 month ago
Hi,

I think I have made a mistake with some payments. Last night I paid for the two books that are advertised on the Rose Hybridizers Association Home Page. One of the two books I paid for is the Rose Hybridizing - The Next Step which without realizing that I have already have an access to and read the the Rose Hybridizing - The Next Step as a member of the RHA. Also so far I have not received a copy of the Rose Hybridizing for Beginners - booklet. I would like to ask for the refund of the The Rose Hybridizing - The Next Step. Also i would like to receive the Rose Hybridizing for Beginners - booklet.

The Rose Hybridizing - The Next Step - booklet is already available on the site to the members as “Active resources” when the member of the RHA logs on to the main page of RHA.

Also how do I have access to the RHA library lendin g materials?
I look forward to hearign from you asap.

Best wishes
"

I was not quite happy with the reply and thought that the answer does not tie with what is claimed at the website. It was obvious to me that due to the way the web site was designed and the way the web site operates the RHA web site is misleading and I ended up paying twice for the membership for the RHA.

Even thought I was not happy with the reply I thought "Ok you can have the extra double charge for the membership I effectively paid for 6 years of membership but I get three years! " I considered the extra payment as my way of contributing to the society financially since I do not have the knowledge and experience to contribute and I did not want to be just the “TAKER”. I wanted to “GIVE” something too in return of the valuable information i have been reading at the “Public Forum”. I accepted the situation because of “All out of respect to the people who has been sharing their experience and knowledge.”

Then at the beginning of November 2014 I wanted to make use of the “Lending Library” So I asked for guidance at the “Help Desk” and told to
"
please contact Ann at the following email address to request library materials from the RHA.

abpeck@att.net"

I admired and appreciated the Help Desk’s attitude and dedication in putting up with the spelling mistakes and the rest trying to make sense of the writing full of grammar and spelling mistakes. While typing and sending the message to the Help Desk I used the box on the web page. Later I realised that I have more control of the grammar and the text if I prepare all somewhere and then paste into the box just before I click the send button. Now I am trying my best to get it all right.

As per advice I emailed Ann at abpeck@att.net from my personal email account as I was not aware of the fact that you can private email Ann by logging onto the form. This is all about being newbie. Perhaps I am the dumbest user so far. But I am learning. After about 27 days I asked the Help desk about how to get a reply from Ann and make use of the library as a member. I was told to

" Post a message to the RHA message board requesting a response so she will know to check her email…?
"
So I did. I emailed Ann from the Members Forum and as well as the member-only forum without realising trying to find my way round of how to use the web site and all the rest.

So far I have no reply from Ann and still unable to make use of the lending Library.

Ann, can you please tell me why you are not responding to my emails and not letting me use the “LENDING LIBRARY”. Ann would you please be kind enough to tell me where I have been persistently “dumb” and persistently failing to understand the rules and regulations and can you please direct me to the web pages or documents of rules and regulations of becoming a member of the RHA where it says I am not allowed to make any use of the library and have to pay double for three year of membership. Can you please direct me to the rules and regulations of the RHA where it says “The dummies are not allowed to use the Library”. Obviously it seems that I have terribly failed to see and grasp.

If this is all because I have been the best dummy ever
I would like my money back minus the cost of the “MANUALS” which anyone can download off the internet for FREE. I am not joking!

If everything is OK and all is down to Ann being unable to access the web and the RHA web site and forced to be away from fulfilling Librarian duties for whatever reason surely almost two months is more than adequate to assist Ann with the difficulties she is in. So what is the hold up and when do I get the access to the library?

Assuming Ann is still alive and exists and around and all is OK with her and is not a “FICTION”:

As it is now “Nobody” needs to pay and become a member to access the contents of the “PUBLIC FORUM” at Rose Hybridizers Association Forum - Rose Hybridizers Association Forum .

So why did I become a member? Why I am not allowed to use the Lending Library? What criteria I have failed to fulfil for being denied to access the lending library? Why was I charged double?

Is RHA just a trap to milk more money from people like me? The home page of the web site IS misleading and cunning. If the whole thing is a genuine mistake please I would like to have the extra money I paid for back or give me the 6 years of membership automatically.

Can somebody be kind enough and give me an answer as soon as possible please!

When I log onto RHA following the Please login I get the web page below In there itis easy to see that the double payment.
MemberSignedIn.jpg
There is no mistake here. Have I been really done or is this a genuine mistake. I am afraid it is hardly to believe that it is just a coincide having the experience of being double charged and being ignored and blocked out for the use of the library.

But I sincerely hope that it s just a coincide. Time will show.

Kind Regards

Dear Cem22alya,

I have sent you a personal message. I hope you can view it. If not, please send me an e-mail at rhaeditor at gmail dot com.

Thanks,
Betsy van der Hoek
Editor, RHA newsletter