I have started to collect my 2007 hips. This early the list consists mainly of species and near species varieties.
Of particular note is that “Mother 523” did form a hip with (George Vancouver X John Davis) pollen. This suggests that “Mother 523” may be tetraploid.
“Mother 523” is:
((Delicata X OP) X ((Theresa Bugnet X OP) X OP))) X (acicularis X OP)
Link: spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pxHhTw7ylg782w9GDTC48Sg&hl=en
Correction:
“Mother 523” is:
((Delicata X OP) X ((Theresa Bugnet X OP) X OP)) X (acicularis X OP)
Trying to help.
In my opinion first pedigree is better as the last one is unclear as to which crossing was done the last.
In other words from the last version you cannot make out if ((Theresa Bugnet X OP) X OP)) is part of hip or pollen parent.
The last cross within the mother was with (acicularis X OP) pollen.
The number of right brackets has to equal the number of left brackets.
Looks like I gave the wrong link:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pxHhTw7ylg782w9GDTC48Sg
The link will be updated as the hips ripen.
Link: spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pxHhTw7ylg782w9GDTC48Sg
I’m more of the opinion that an open pollination doesn’t need the times symbol, because it isn’t fundamentally representing a cross and becomes visually confusing when portrayed that way, therefore:
(‘Delicata’ OP X ‘Therese Bugnet’ OPx2) X R. acicularis OP
…would be how I’d write it. I’m less sure how best to designate more than one open pollination sequence; would OP
Stefan, thanks for the suggestion. I have replaced the “X OP” with “OP”.
Henry,
What do you do with your hips that you collect this early? Do you remove the seeds right away or do you leave them in the hip? If you remove the seeds, do you keep them dry, or do you keep them moist? And lastly do you keep the hips or seeds at room tempature or do you keep them at about 40 degrees F. If I remember right you don’t stratify your seeds until about March. If that’s correct, you must store the seeds for about 6 months. I had read somewhere that fresh seeds germinated better than seeds that had been stored. You must have good results with stored seeds.
I collected some R.glauca hips about this time last year. I stored them in the hip at room temp in my basement. Needless to say the hips turned black and mushy in short order. I removed the seeds from the pulp and continued to keep them dry at room temp. November 1st I put the seeds in a moist paper towel at room temp for about one month. I then put them in the refridgerator. From about 60 to 90 days I got seed coat seperation but not one seed germinated.
I was wondering if the process I used caused the lack of germination or if I just had a bad batch of seeds?
Thanks,
Paul
Paul, fresh seeds probably do germinate better. From my recent experience, I did set up some seeds that were 3-4 years old and have had some decent germination. The old seeds were stored dry and not in the fridge.
Thanks Rob,
Its good to know that seeds kept dry are still viable after 3 or 4 years. I wonder if it would have made a difference if I removed the seeds from the hip first.
A couple of years ago my wife and mother in-law went to Norway in June. They brought back some dried hips from a rose plant there. It was obvious they were from the previous fall. I didn’t have much hope for them because they were in pretty rough shape. I was right, for what ever reason not a single seed germinated.
The hips are placed into the thinest (thin for oxygen exchange purposes) zip-lock bags that I can find. They are placed in plastic boxes that have covers (the covers are to keep critters from eating the hips - the covers are not airtight). I probably should fashion metal screen type covers. The boxes are kept in my unheated but attached to the house garage until spring.
In the spring the following takes place:
Henry
Stefan suggestion is better than mine as easier to read.
However the number of right brackets has certainly not to equal the number of left brackets.
Its fully correct if one writes i.e.:
(A x (B x C)) x D
Pierre your example (A x (B x C)) x D does have the same number of right brackets (2) as left brackets (2).
A right bracket is defined as “)”. A left bracket is defined as “(”.
The above is to be interpreted in the following way: C was used to pollinate B. The resultant plant ( B X C) was used as the pollen donor on plant A. The resultant plant (A X (B X C )) accepted pollen from plant D to form a new plant “(A x (B x C)) x D” .
Thanks Henry,
I should have known that you would have had your procedure well documented. You’re very organized that way.
You don’t seem to have any trouble germinating seeds after storing them in an unheated garage. Does it get below freezing in the garage? Wouldn’t that affect the seeds?
Do you dry the hips before storing, so they don’t get moldie or turn to mush?
Thanks again,
Paul
Paul, I simply pick the hips and put them in the bags. Some do mold and turn to mush. I do not worry about that as my observation is that some like that have been my best germinators. I suggest that the bags be stored loosely so that the mold process does not generate sufficient heat to kill the seeds. This is one of the reasons that I am planning on using metal screen tops on the containers this year.
I do not have a problem storing things like latex paint in the garage so I do not think that super low temperatures that could damage the seeds are reached. Two of the walls of the garage are shared with the house. The garage door is insulated.
Thanks Henry,
That is a good idea about not letting them heat up enough to kill them. I suspect that the mold in some way simulates the digestive track of an animal, which reduces their dormancy. Similar to the Bromelain treatment.
My garage is attached to the house also, but it is well ventilated and does not have any sheet rock, so it does get below freezing in the winter. You would think seeds would freeze in the wild, so maybe freezing doesn’t affect them.
Paul
Today (11-5-2007), I finished adding all of my crosses and collected open pollinated hips to the spread sheet.
Please note that hips that formed when I added alpha napthalene acetamide may not contain any seeds. I do not take the seeds out of the hips until spring.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pxHhTw7ylg782w9GDTC48Sg
Henry, you are right about the brackets. Since it can be somewhat difficult to follow the parentage history in complex crosses, I like to use different types of brackets to designate levels of the parentage. Like in your example:
{(Delicata X OP) X [(Theresa Bugnet X OP) X OP]} X (acicularis X OP)
I don’t know if that helps anyone else, but I like to do it that way.
Jim Sproul
Jim,
Using the various brackets does make it easier to understand a complicated cross. Thanks for the example.
Rob
I write mine out like:
{1 x } x
…and so on for any new type of bracket I need to show a differentiation.