Cl. Orange Triumph hips

Kind of a dumb question here…

Folks often speak of evaluating roses fertility by observing OP hips, etc. prior to utilizing a plant in breeding. I have a rather young Orange Triumph that has yet to set an OP hip, but this spring, at a time when there were few blooms to work with, I decided to emasculate some of its buds to try it anyway. On the first buds I tackled, it seemed that the stigma were already passed their prime, though the flower had barely begun to open. I eventually emasculated a bud which was still rather firm and not yet beginning to unfurl. The stigma actually looked receptive (though the anthers were very immature) so I hit it with the only thing handy (Don Juan). I now have a very plump hip forming.

Is this something others have observed with some cultivars? And does this suggest that some cultivars which might appear relatively sterile might actually be fertile, but have some anamoly preventing them from fruiting?

I feel this is probably a dumb question as I know that Orange Triumph has a number of seedlings out there. Perhaps my plant was just being weird this spring(?) I’ve never fertilized such a young bud before.

Sounds like a great question to me Phillip. I wonder if you have something there regarding culitvars that appear sterile but which otherwise might be fertile earlier on in the bud stage. Look forward to those who know more about the science to respond.

I used to grow the bush version. It was highly sterile because it wanted to release its peduncles as soon as the blooms were done.

Thanks Bob. I kinda felt I was asking an ignorant question.

Jadae, if I’m understanding you correctly, yes, it aborts what I’m now presuming to be unpollinated hips very quickly. Precisely my point as to why I had wondered if it might be sterile. Having a plump hip now via a fertilization of what should have been a premature hip based on the flower (the closed corolla of which would have precluded natural pollination) I’m wondering…

As I say, it has a good number of progeny on HMF. My one unproven hip is statistically meaningless, however…

Has anyone else used this one???


I dunno… Is it the subject heading that keeps folks from responding, or do folks not have insights into physical, as opposed to genetic, compatibility issues with regards to a roses apparent fertility?

(Or are you all just confirming that it was a dumb question!)


I stated all that I knew :stuck_out_tongue:

I tried it both ways, it always failed, the end, lol. shrug

I am not a fan of the OP hip fertility test, there are too many exceptions.

Varieties that make little to no pollen won’t make op hips well, yet some, like Gemini, are superb mothers. Very double roses often have the stigmas covered by petals, so they won’t make op hips either. Some diploids are self incompatible, so few op hips unless you have fat bees. I haven’t personally seen this, but the male/female timing could be off, as you suggested. The point is, if you think it is a potentially interesting parent, try it, if it turns out to be sterile, it will still make a nice present for someone.

Two of my bulletproof old roses have never been used for breeding according to HMF, Mrs. BR Cant and Mrs.Dudley Cross, they are both very double and make very little pollen. They have no difficulty setting hips when pollen is applied however, so I’m glad I didn’t rely on the op test with them. My rookie-ish opinion.

Mrs. BR Cant has been used successfully in hybridizing, as pollen parent. The descendants are unrecorded.

I played with it a bit as seed parent without success. Nothing commercial has come from it as yet but I know a hybridizer working with it.

Both Mrs. BR Cant and Mrs. Dudley Cross can mildew when conditions are ideal.

I appreciate the info, I’ll keep collecting the anthers on BR Cant then, the pollen may come when she’s older. I have 10 hips on her atm from Gold Medal and Ingrid Bergman, hopefully it turns into something. I just pollinated 10 more with Silver Dawn, too early to tell if they will stick.

Absolutely Charles. Your climate and situation may prove different than mine.

First germination today from the O.T. x D.J. cross in the first post which I did this spring. The hip required nearly 7 months to mature! But despite no OP hips, O.T. certainly has proven fertility for me. As mentioned, its use required that a still-somewhat-firm bud be opened. The stigma were already ripe and receptive.