I am planning to replace one of my Angel Face with Charles Albanel after this year. Has anyone worked with it? Is it a good seed parent and how disease resistant is it? Sometimes when things are said to be disease resistant they are only that way when sprayed?
One more question does anyone know the pollen parent of Charles Albanel or have a good guess what the pollen parent may be?
Charles Albanel is an open pollinated seedling of Souvenir de Philemon Cochet and it is very healthy here in cold climate. It is adiploid and it works both ways between rugosas propably better as seed parent. How it crosses with other roses I don’t have any experience.
If you are looking a healthy and hardy rugosa hybrid, try ‘Dart’s Defender’ (Hansa x R. nitida).
“Dr. Felicitas Svejda confirms the parentage to be 2 cycles of open pollen of ‘Souvenir de Philemon Cochet’”
Thanks for the information on the parentage Hannu and Paul. About Darts Dash do you know if it is fertile? It would also fit into my size restraints. The foliage in its picture is very shiny.
Things that worries me about breeding with R. rugosa hybrids is getting good branching from the seedlings and finding rugosas that can be used in wide crosses. Dart Dash may work in wide crosses because it is a wide cross to begin with.
I have no experience breeding with Dart’s Dash. ARS suggest it to beginner hybridizers. It sets hips so you can use it as pod parent (and maybe as pollen parent too?)
As far as I know, I’m the only breeder who has developed a ‘Charles Albanel’ hybrid (‘Pacific Pearls’). It was used as the staminate parent and crossed with 'Hansa’to develop this cultivar. The shrub is quite compact and the semi-double pale pink flowers that fade quickly to white are very fragrant. In my opinion, more work should be done with ‘Charles Albanel’ in a breeding program. One thing to keep in mind is that ‘Charles Albanel’, although it is a medium pink, has the potential to breed progeny with white flowers. This is because its pedigree can be traced back to ‘Blanc Double de Coubert’.
No type of rose is more amenable to doing wide crosses than Rugosas, so a Rugosa hybrid with a species like Rosa nitida has no advantage.
‘Aylsham’ is a superior cultivar to ‘Dart’s Defender’. Better flower colour and foliage. It’s unfortunate it is not more available in the States. I’m sending plants to Pickering Nursery in the fall, so hopefully it eventually will be. I’ve neglected it for using in breeding programs but have used it a lot this year. I must do a ‘Aylsham’ x Metis’ cross sometime to develop another Rugosa/Nitida hybrid. Maybe I still have time this year to do it. These hybrids have such attractive foliage, and this important characteristic is too often ignored in breeding programs.
Aylsham x Metis will result in a plant with a lot of species in its back ground. It should be interesting to see what happens with a cross like that. How does Metis perform as a parent?
Sorry for all the questions! Just looking for a rugosa or rugosa hybrid that is a good seed parent particularly, has a certain level of hardiness, and most of all fits within my size restrictions. I have a few plants that are going to get huge and should not add any more that get huge. So I need something that will only grow 4 feet or less.
The foliage of the Rugosa/Nitida hybrid are really nice at least in the pictures. Does it affect the disease resistance of these plants after they have lost the typical rugosa foliage?
Dart’s Defender is disease free here and it never had any winter damages. I don’t know how it behaves in warmer climate. Very good seed parent.
I find Metis to be pretty susceptible to powdery mildew and leaf spot. The leaves show quite a bit of R.nitida influence in color and shininess. I have not tried it as a seed or pollen parent, but did get some OP hips last year from it. Not very many, maybe 10% to 15% of the flowers produced hips. I got around 25% germination rate from the OP seeds I got. The resulting seedlings are somewhat spindly and do not have much of R.nitida influence in them.
The most willing H.Rugosa parent I have used is Showy Pavement; all of the attempts took last year. Showy Pavement isn
‘Metis’ has been rarely (ever?) used as a parent in controlled crosses, so we don’t have a thorough understanding how it works. I wouldn’t use it as a pistillate parent though. Just an intuitive feeling that it wouldn’t work well this way. I’m usually correct in my assessments this way.
In a northern climate (Zone 2 - 3), disease problems are generally not an issue with Rugosa hybrids. Generally though, once species roses are mixed with a pure Rugosa, in warmer climates disease resistance is lost. An exception is Rosa rugosa x R. wichurana hybrids.
One Rugosa cultivar I would seriously look at for your needs is ‘Purple Pavement’. One of the most beautiful Rugosas ever developed and very fertile both ways. Shrub is compact and doesn’t grow too tall. I highly recommend it.
I am out to the farm this weekend to see the Metis X Betty Will and reverse crosses. I will be able to say then what they will do. The OP heps that I have gotten from it are rather prickly
And yes Purple Pavement is one of my favorite too. The flower form is good for a rugosa and is almost fully hardy in my Zone 1b/2a. I find that sometimes it resents being a pistilate and the flowers do ball. Much better than Hansa.
I’m surprised you say 'Purple Pavement “sometimes resents being a pistillate and the flowers do ball.” That is not my experience. I have never seen balling of the flowers in pure Rugosa cultivars. The Rugosa cultivars prone to balling invariably have complex pedigrees that include other species. ‘Martin Frobisher’ and ‘Betty Will’, for example. This is the trade off when developing new forms of Rugosas. Different species have to be incorporated to do so, but because of potential genetic incompatability there is the risk of the flowers in the progeny being malformed or prone to balling.
I believe your generalisation about rugosa sp. This plant is for me an abberation. Also Connor Creek where I have my material has been getting 2X the rain that Edmonton gets lately. Somebody what to do a study? I follow the generalisation that petal count is very responsible for balling that was taught to me by an old prof.
I still like this rose and am using its non-bleaching colour in a tall “climber” about 2.3m tall.
I should be commenting on Charles Albanel. It is a pretty little rugosa that is reliable.