'Catherine Guelda


Do you know the ploidy of CG and whether it is fertile either way? Anyone else have any experience to share on David’s beautiful rose?

Link: www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.41603.0&tab=1

Hi Rob!

I’m glad you like it. I really enjoy having it in the garden. It makes a limited number of op hips with a seed or two in them. Much of the pollen under the microscope looks aborted, but some are good. It is diploid. I usually collect op seed from it and raise it. Many seem to be more polyantha like as I have lots of polys near it. I once got a 3x seedling from it with larger features probably from a cross with one of the nearby Carefree Beauty seedlings. Unfortunately, that 3x seedling got too much black spot.

I think it Catherine Guelda would be a good parent to transmit abundant bloom and cane hardiness. It has useful black spot tolerance and typically still has enough leaves in the fall to still look okay and keep blooming well.

Take Care,


Hello David. I’m glad to hear that CG does set some seed. Funny you mention that many of your OP seeds are ployantha like as that was the route I was thinking for this one. A nice yellow poly with abundant bloom and cane hardiness, as you mentioned, would be wonderful. It may take a while to get a good yellow but it’s an interesting cross. Thanks for the information!


Hi David

Any infos about the Catherine Guelda

I love what I have seen of this rose and Candy Oh! Vivid Red.

Just looked at Candy Oh!..another nice one David. And, sets hips too!

I can verify that ‘Candy Oh! Vivid Red’ is a fertile pollen and seed parent and is capable of passing on good red coloring, vigor and plays nicely with other diploids.

Add another one to my list. What a great red.

Thanks for the nice comments!! Candy Oh! Vivid Red and Catherine Guelda share the same mother. It is a single blush polyantha that has a magenta margin that intensifies for a bit before it fades. Years ago I started some Angel Rose Poly seedlings from seed I got from Thompson and Morgan. I lived in Rhinelander, WI then (zone 3) and surprisingly a handful survived of the 80 seedlings (listed as zone 5 in the catalog). I intermated these and this seedling that is the female of both roses came into being. Unfortunately, I lost that plant during the few times I had to move my rose garden over the years.

CG does grow nice and full without any special pruning. It is very cane hardy from Therese Bugnet, its dad.

Take Care,



If available, both will be on my spring order list. It’s nice that you were able to get them to market. Success stories are great to hear and give me hope that one of mine may make it as well.



I love the process. Ive always been into the survival of the fittest strategy, lol. I think it is because it works within the grain of nature – it considers external context. Granted, the N & NE USA isnt China/SE Asia but I think the point is still valid. I finally bought Happy, which is from the same lines but I like your individual process better. I imagine that your female poly source definitely has chinensis in it somewhere becase of the color intensification. I guessed chinensis was somewhere to be found when I saw the petal color of Candy Oh! Vivid Red. It is very unique.


Neither CG or CO! VR! seem to be available from the listed nurseries. Do you anticipate availability increasing in the next year or two? They are both on my list of must gets.



Have you considered trying to get this one into the UK or Europe? It would almost certainly have interest from nurseries in Germany, Finland, etc. I can also see Peter Beales taking an interest in this one, they are quite keen to acquire roses that can be listed as “Unique to us in the UK”, I can see them going for Candy Oh! Vivid Red to. If I can say one thing about Beales it’s that they know a good rose when they see one.

For my part I’d love to work with these roses, Catherine Guelda particularly so. They are well worth growing in their own right and look to have some real potential in breedin, and I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only person this side of the pond keen to get hold of Them.

One of the most annoying things about living in the UK is that there are so many good roses that just don’t make it to us here. I’ve managed to get one or two interesting varieties smuggled in as cuttings or budwood, but there is just to much expense and hassle involved in getting plants imported through official channels as a private individual. One of the virtues of Beales is that they are willing to import new varieties to the UK.

I’ll certainly be keeping my eyes open for these and will be one of the first in the queue if they should make it across the water.


Yeah, I could definitely see this rose is the most parts of the world – from strip mall parking lots to a private garden in Hong Kong. Its a nice combination of traits and a color that most people find pleasing.

I understand it isn’t difficult getting things into England from The Netherlands? Take a look at this nursery and see if they have anything you can’t live without. Getting things to Hans is actually quite easy. If you can get things FROM him, I think we have our channel!

I sent him things I thought he may find interesting this summer. Who knows what remains after the blizzards you’re having? He wrote he got half through harvest before all Hades broke out, so a lot of it remains in the fields. Very nice guy.

I found reference to a rose J. H. Nicholas bred and which appeared to be extinct. ONE garden in Sweden had it and I contacted Hans to see what the chances were of his obtaining it. Ironically, he knows the curator and now Dr. E. M. Mills grows in The Netherlands and HOPEFULLY will be back here in the US. I WANT to see this rose! Kim

Link: www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=17.3985

Hi Kim,

You right, there is no problem with buying plants from any EU country as we are part of the common market.

To be fair, it’s not particularly difficult to get cuttings/budwood and even small plants from the US and Canada if you don’t go through official channels, the difficulty is in finding suppliers that will ship the material without the proper paper work. If there were more nurseries willing to let you buy the plants and take your chances as to whether they make it through customs it would be easy. British customs don’t seem to worry over plant material coming into the UK, I’ve traded plants quite a bit outside the EU and never had any problem receiving the material.

The problem starts when you go through customs to import from the US and Canada. The paperwork takes months and the expense is ridiculous. You basically have to set yourself up as a registered import business which is excessive if you just want to bring in a few plants for your own use.

The only difficulty I could see with going through bierkreek is payment. Bank transfers to Europe cost a small fortune because we are not in the Euro. If he can take visa or paypall it’s fine but strait bank transfers are way to expensive. I’ll have to get in touch with Hans and find out what payment options he has available.

Then it’s just a question of David coming to an agreement with him on distribution.


The old wood of Dr. E.M. Mills looks very scotch briar to me. Radiance is a fine older HT, probably among the best of its era, but I am puzzled by its inclusion in the lineage. The breeder was known for piling on various roses of vast origin, often in 3’s. It looks part Cinn. type, part scotch briar and part persian briar, lol. What a hot mess :slight_smile: I’m guessing straight [Rosa rugosa x (Rosa hugonis X Rosa spinosissima altaica)]. That would fit his pattern.

Would that lineage have created a flower as large as the one in the photograph, Jadae?

Yeah. Rugosa hybrids, unless bred with roses like the synstylae types, tend to have large flowers. The photograph is from Sweden, so I believe they should bloom full-sized there. The blooms on Rosa rugosa alba in my old garden were HT-sized in May thru October. What they tend to hate is dry heat but not heat itself. They LOVE humidity. Some of the Hybrid PErpetual/Rugosa hybrid types, on the other hand, can sulk in the summer even if it is humid. It’d be interesting to see how more rugosa w/ persian roses do. Nigel Hawthorn seems to care less what the day is as long as its above 32 degrees F. I dont think it actually requires watering… It can just sit there in like suspended homeostasis. Its a very odd rose.

David’s Candy Oh! and Huney Bun (a new Scrivens) accidently ended up in my eBay basket :slight_smile: