I was surprised to find that I have only 3 hips remaining from about 100 pollinations on Carefree Sunshine. Yet as a pollen parent it has done excellently, some in directly reciprocal crosses. And the same pollens that failed on C.S. seem on other seed parents reasonably OK (up to or > 50% take). Does anyone find it a highly effective seed parent?
I had some failures, but mainly takes. This is only a guess as I have not collected the hips yet (the bush is loaded with fat hips in plastic 2 by 2 zip lock bags - but there are some bags on the ground under the plant).
I’ve had pretty good take on it a few years ago when I tried to use it extensively as a female with shrub rose seedlings of mine as male parents. I was disappointed in the offspring because they were generally blackspot ridden. This rose itself is very healthy (some rust though). Perhaps if I used different males things would be different. Hopefully it’ll be a good link to some nice new cultivars.
Sincerely,
David
"I was disappointed in the offspring because they were generally blackspot ridden. " -David
This is why I never bothered with it. The parentage looked disease ridden.
About two dozen Carefree Sunshine 2006 seedlings have stayed quite healthy through summer.
A Distant Drums X CS is probably my favorite 06 seedling: double, bright yellow, very remontant, and much healthier than its parent Distant Drums.
Some CS X James Mason and CS X Cuthbert Grant are red versions of CS, also healthy.
Dave, congratulations on the Carefree Sunshine crosses especially the Culbert Grant one. I assume that you are planning on crossing it back to some yellow roses.
I probably should have used Culbert Grant more as a pollen parent. For many years I had tried mainly crosses using it as a seed parent and have nothing to show for it.
I do have a 2004 seedling of (George Vancouver X John Davis) X Culbert Grant that has dark red double flowers and does set open pollinated hips. Although it sounds futile (one could ask what is there to gain by crossing red with red), next season I will probably try crosses of it with Illusion.
Distant Drums is not healthy for you?!? It is very healthy here. No disease…4 flushes per season. It is own-root from Weeks.
DD is a bs disaster here. I envy anyone who is able to grow it.
Weird! Where do you live? Is it a different version of BS than here in Western Oregon?
Dave,
It’s very interesting to me that you’ve gotten a healthy ‘Carefree Sunshine’ seedling from ‘Cuthbert Grant’ pollen; especially considering the heavy background of Rosa arkansana in ‘Cuthbert Grant’. From my experiences, ‘Carefree Sunshine’ seems to combine very well (healthwise but unfortunately no rebloom yet) with a seedling of mine that is ‘Fragrant Cloud’ X Rosa carolina (another North American tetraploid).
Coincidentally, I once had some seedlings from ‘Carefree Sunshine’ pollen on ‘Rose de Rescht’ too. Sadly, I neglected, one too many times, to water that container. But from what I remember, they were fairly healthy in general too. These would be somewhat analogous to your healthy seedlings from ‘James Mason’ pollen.
So maybe, OGR’s (old garden roses) and hybrids with North American tetraploid ancestry are the best partners to try with ‘Carefree Sunshine’.
By the way Larry, I haven’t used ‘Carefree Sunshine’ as a seed parent at all, but it always sets lots of open-pollinated hips here in Maryland.
Thanks all for comments on CS seedlings.
There are five CSXCG and eight CSXJM, each plant consisting of multiple 2 ft stems, some longer.
What might be the next step: pollinating with Sunsprite or Elina to provide some refinement??
Carefree Sunshine has some good qualities. It has excellent seed set and germination. It passes on good yellow color and repeat.
However, I stopped using it. It drops its pollen very early making it difficult to cross. Also, I agree with David on the disease resistance. Even when crossed with highly disease resistant roses, not one seedling had good resistance to blackspot.
With that said, it is still probably worth a shot. With the right cross, it could pass on its near-perfect blackspot resistance.
I have finished my picking of 2006 crosses. The following are crosses with Carefree Sunshine as the mother:
2 hips using Amelia Flemming pollen. (Do not ask me why I purchased Amelia Flemming. I now look at the parents and see no reason to have purchased it???)
1 hip using ((George Vancouver X John Davis) X (Rugelda X R-15)) pollen.
1 hip using (Rugelda X R-15) pollen.
2 hips using (Illusion X William Baffin) pollen.
2 hips using (Folksinger X (William Baffin X OP)) pollen.
3 hips using (George Vancouver X John Davis) pollen.
1 hip using (Morden Centennial X OP) pollen.
2 hips using Home Run pollen.
1 hip using Dortman pollen.
1 hip using (Folksinger X Illusion) pollen.
1 hip using Prairie Fire pollen.
1 hip using Illusion pollen.
The following pollination did NOT take:
1 mixed pollination.
2 Illusion pollination.
1 Berolina pollination.
1 OP plus mixed pollination.
1 (Sir Thomas Lipton X ((Therese Bugnet X OP) X OP)) pollination.
1 Leverkusen pollination.
1 unknown yellow Austin pollination.
1 suspected (rugosa X William Baffin) pollination.
1 ((Delicata X OP) X ((Therese Bugnet X OP) X OP)) + acicularis mixed pollination.
1 (Folksinger X (Royal Edward X RSMK-1)) pollination.
1 (Unknown rugosa X R-15) pollination.
1 (Calocarpa X Nutkana) pollination.
1 (Sir Thomas Lipton X OP) pollination.
1 Quadra pollination.
1 (Rugelda X R-15) pollination.
Note, some pollens are listed in both the “worked” and “not worked” sections. There are a number of possible variables that could cause this: temperature, rain, and age of pollen are three that come to mind.
Odd that Berolina (Selfridges) did not take. It almost always takes here unless the pollen isnt very fertile.
Jadae, Berolina was used as the pollen supplier.
Help Me Find lists that it has been used as a parent successfully both ways. I have had it for many years and in a quick and dirty search did not find that I had created any offspring (either way - mother or father). Perhaps it only comes into bloom during our hot weather. In this case my records indicate that the pollen was taken on August 16 and used on August 17. I did not record the temperature that day.
I do not expect that pollinations done in August will be ripe in my climate(except for rugosas), but sometimes/often I do pollinate then just to see if the cross will take (and with the “hope” that the immature seeds will germinate).
Since I have the pollination bags out, I might as well give the dates for the other unsuccessful pollinations:
1 mixed pollination. Pollen used August 4 (mixed pollen is a mixture of pollen normally older that 5 to 7 days).
2 Illusion pollination. Pollen picked June 14, pollen used June 16 (although my records indicate 2, I found only 1 bag).
1 Berolina pollination. Pollen picked August 16, pollen used August 17.
1 OP plus mixed pollination. August 9.
1 (Sir Thomas Lipton X ((Therese Bugnet X OP) X OP)) pollination. Pollen picked June 30, pollen used July 2.
1 Leverkusen pollination. Polled taken August 17, pollen used August 20.
1 unknown yellow Austin pollination. Pollen picked August 8, pollen used August 9.
1 suspected (rugosa X William Baffin) pollination. Pollen picked August 17, pollen used August 20.
1 (((Delicata X OP) X ((Therese Bugnet X OP) X OP)) X acicularis) pollination. Note, this is a correction from the earlier post. In the earlier post in this thread I said that it was mixed pollen.
1 (Folksinger X (Royal Edward X RSMK-1)) pollination. Pollen picked August 4, pollen used August 5.
1 (Unknown rugosa X R-15) pollination. Pollen picked July 14, pollen used July 15.
1 (Calocarpa X Nutkana) pollination. Pollen picked July 18, pollen used July 19.
1 (Sir Thomas Lipton X OP) pollination. Pollen picked August 16, pollen used August 17.
1 Quadra pollination. Pollen picked August 17, pollen used August 20.
1 (Rugelda X R-15) pollination. Pollen picked June 16, pollen used June 17.
Oops, Im blind. I never tried it as pollen because it set so readily for me.