Paul Olsen, unfortunately here in semitropical zone 4 there is a strain of blackspot going around that has zeroed in on Schneezwerg. Schneezwerg had everything I wanted in a white Rugosa, so I was very excited about using it as a breeder. This blackspot susceptibility has been a grave disappointment. My plant started getting blackspot last year, and this year it has been so bad that the plant is in decline. Some Henry Hudsons at a local park also have it. I did not search high and low for a BS-free yellow parent only to be foiled by my choice of Rugosa seed parent, so I’ve had to start looking for other white Rugosas as breeders. I hope your climate gives you some protection from the contagion.
I sent in a note to HMF that updates Mary Sumner’s parentage and its connection to Orangeade. Its interesting that both New Year and Brown Velvet were ancestors to some rellly bright golds.
Now putting aside the miniature rugosa crosses for write now. Those crosses are mostly trying to walk in Ralph Moore’s shoes to see if I could do about the same thing and hopefully get something worthy. He has very big shoes by the way. Someone told me he was a giant:) But any ways I want to try to keep it on the diploid level right now. So I want to either cross it with a yellow diploid or a triploid that might produce a few yellow diploid gamets. My thinking is that working at the diploid level the genetics would be easier at least number wise, I could get a homo state at least in the genes I want in fewer generations, and get the yellow saturation that is missing in more modern roses. So what would be your suggestions for a diploid yellow that would work with rugosas? Maybe I will end up crossing the diploid yellow with something else first then try to incorporate it into the rugosas if their is nothing else that will work directly.
I will have to look up Brown Velvet I did not realized that it was used so much. I don’t even think I have even seen this rose. I have seen New Years it is horrible here, maybe it is just the few clones I have seen have been poor but I can not figure out why it was used so much.
New Year has awesome blooms, great vigor, awesome repeat and awesome color. And that is where the praise ends. It will mildew, blackspot and get cold damage with no end in sight, lol. I can see why Top Notch used Singin in the Rain as the other half since Sexy Rexy passes on decent mildew resistance. I have used both New Year and Top Notch in breeding with awful, disease prone results. How Julia Childs came out decent puzzles me, although I personally think it is ugly. Its formless blooms hide under the foliage here. But people love Sexy Rexy too, so w/e.
Brown Velvet fares better. It has good vigor, a very romantic form, neat color and decent rebloom. It will get mildew at the tips of the canes for me and the peduncles are ridiculously long. The nodding effect looks pretty in the landscape because of its romantic form but it really is not a great trait whatsoever. I like the rose a lot but I dont think it is for everyone. I think it is best suited for temperate gardens that aspire towards a “full” look.
These unique colors from the early 1980s were obviously marked with some pretty nasty issues but I am grateful that someone accomplished the leg work of bringing out their potency so that we can take that work and transform it into something useful in the garden.
New Years is just full of mildew every time I see it.
Betsy van der Hoek wrote: I hope Tom Silvers chimes in because he has made a similar cross and posted his result on HMF
Hi Betsy, sorry I’m so late in joining the discussion. What a good’un! The cross I made was typical unnamed rugosa (fuschia/magenta or whatever you’d call that color) X Rosa xanthina. It made a butter yellow hybrid that hasn’t ever produced a hip, but I think might have some degree of pollen fertility. It’s posted to HMF for anyone interested in seeing pictures.
Pierre Rutten wrote: Many to most yellow roses have more or less efficient anthocyanins supressors. That’s also been my experience with xanthina, ‘Hazeldean’ and [white] spinosissima used as pollen on typical dark-pink rugosa. All of the offspring have had the pinkness (anthocyanins) much reduced (sometimes almost completely absent). So I don’t think it’s necessary at all, to limit the rugosa choices to only white ones. I think the yellow species types are very likely to inhibit the pinkness of the F1 anyway.
Max. E wrote: I know someone on here bred a BEAUTIFUL apricot rugosa hybrid seedling…I forget who, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that could help open the door to yellower rugosas. That was probably my lone seedling of rugosa X ‘Hazeldean’ that you’re thinking of. I had posted pictures earlier this Spring. I’ll see if I can find the thread.
I think the biggest issue any of these rugosa X yellow [species or close to species types] is going to present is the fertility problem.
Tom, I’m sure you’re right about the fertility problem. What I am hoping for is a few first-generation hybrids with fertile pollen I can use to cross back to rugosas. My one and only seedling so far hasn’t even bloomed yet, but shows an interesting combination of its parents’ characteristics–some crinkliness in the leaves from Schneezwerg, the seed parent, but otherwise closely resembling Xanthina in every other respect. What you have said about pink and yellow interactions makes me eager to try many new combinations.
I think you’re definitely on the right track - your plan (backcrossing to rugosa) is the most promising I’ve seen. I once had a batch of rugosa seeds that had set from pollen of the F1 rugosa X xanthina. Unfortunately I was paying more attention to other things at the time and never germinated any of them. I still think that strategy is the best way to proceed. I figure that you should still be able to maintain quite a bit of yellow expression (theoretically just as much as the F1) while hopefully improving fertility and rebloom. Actually regaining rebloom might be more of an issue than I used to think. I been noticing a pattern with the open-pollinated F2 populations from rugosa X [non-reblooming] species… I haven’t found any rebloomers yet! Considering that I’ve been culling all but the most vigorous, maybe I’m eliminating the rebloomers by some linkage effect, but whatever the case, it’s something that’s a little disappointing.
I’ve posted the link to the HelpMeFind post of that rugosa X xanthina hybrid below.
I can hardly wait to see pictures of your Schneezwerg X xanthina when it blooms. I hope it’s a double version of that. That would be really pretty!
And Max, here’s the link to the picture Karl King had so graciously posted on his website for me of that rugosa X ‘Hazeldean’ hybrid. Keep in mind that the bloom is relatively small (maybe golfball size at best).
Link: www.bulbnrose.org/Roses/Rose_Pictures/Rosa/RugosaXHazeldean.html
Tom with rugosa X xanthinia is very nice looking.
Thanks Adam.
It’s one that has gotten better with maturity. It took a long time to “build up steam”, but now that it has it definitely here to stay.
I’ve been trying to get everything moved to the new house and in digging pieces of this one the other day, I noticed how this hybrid seems to run underground even more than rugosa does. I don’t remember xanthina suckering at all, so it’s odd that it seems to have amplified the rugosa suckering habit.
Tom
There are some new pix of Yellow Fairy on HMF now. Its The Fairy and Texas so its not escaping the miniature avenue, but its still an option.
Tom I’ve said it before but that apricot rugosa x Hazeldean is just gorgeous, it’s a beautiful color. Is it consistently that cream color or does the coloring vary from blossom to blossom?
I take it’s a once bloomer right?
Howdy all
Has anyone thought of using Vanguard in relation to this topic, I have heard it some times has rust , but the one here at home , I have had problem with rust. Growth wise its quite a strong grower, flowers are apricot pink with yellow occuring halfway down the petals, perfume is quite strong as well.
cheers warren
I meant to say ( I have had no problem with rust)
I have grown ‘Vanguard’ for about a decade, and it is one of the WORST offenders for Rust. No way would I ever attempt to use it in breeding. Dreadful plant, IMO.
Has anyone tried crossing Linda Campbell with some yellows?
No, but I have crossed Linda Campbell’s sister, Magseed, with assorted yellows and gotten oranges. I have a variety of Magseed seedlings I am waiting to see first bloom on this year. I expect some interesting results.
Hi Paul,
I have only used Magseed rarely and have only kept one selection. How often do you see remontent seedlings coming from it?
Also regarding yellow rugosas, Mr. Moore developed a “Yellow Thornless Rugosa”, does anyone else have it? He said that it was difficult to root, and that has certainly been my experience with it. I finally moved my plant up to a larger pot and hope to try it in breeding this year.
Jim Sproul