Paul Olsen, unfortunately here in semitropical zone 4 there is a strain of blackspot going around that has zeroed in on Schneezwerg. Schneezwerg had everything I wanted in a white Rugosa, so I was very excited about using it as a breeder. This blackspot susceptibility has been a grave disappointment. My plant started getting blackspot last year, and this year it has been so bad that the plant is in decline. Some Henry Hudsons at a local park also have it. I did not search high and low for a BS-free yellow parent only to be foiled by my choice of Rugosa seed parent, so Iāve had to start looking for other white Rugosas as breeders. I hope your climate gives you some protection from the contagion.
I sent in a note to HMF that updates Mary Sumnerās parentage and its connection to Orangeade. Its interesting that both New Year and Brown Velvet were ancestors to some rellly bright golds.
Now putting aside the miniature rugosa crosses for write now. Those crosses are mostly trying to walk in Ralph Mooreās shoes to see if I could do about the same thing and hopefully get something worthy. He has very big shoes by the way. Someone told me he was a giant:) But any ways I want to try to keep it on the diploid level right now. So I want to either cross it with a yellow diploid or a triploid that might produce a few yellow diploid gamets. My thinking is that working at the diploid level the genetics would be easier at least number wise, I could get a homo state at least in the genes I want in fewer generations, and get the yellow saturation that is missing in more modern roses. So what would be your suggestions for a diploid yellow that would work with rugosas? Maybe I will end up crossing the diploid yellow with something else first then try to incorporate it into the rugosas if their is nothing else that will work directly.
I will have to look up Brown Velvet I did not realized that it was used so much. I donāt even think I have even seen this rose. I have seen New Years it is horrible here, maybe it is just the few clones I have seen have been poor but I can not figure out why it was used so much.
New Year has awesome blooms, great vigor, awesome repeat and awesome color. And that is where the praise ends. It will mildew, blackspot and get cold damage with no end in sight, lol. I can see why Top Notch used Singin in the Rain as the other half since Sexy Rexy passes on decent mildew resistance. I have used both New Year and Top Notch in breeding with awful, disease prone results. How Julia Childs came out decent puzzles me, although I personally think it is ugly. Its formless blooms hide under the foliage here. But people love Sexy Rexy too, so w/e.
Brown Velvet fares better. It has good vigor, a very romantic form, neat color and decent rebloom. It will get mildew at the tips of the canes for me and the peduncles are ridiculously long. The nodding effect looks pretty in the landscape because of its romantic form but it really is not a great trait whatsoever. I like the rose a lot but I dont think it is for everyone. I think it is best suited for temperate gardens that aspire towards a āfullā look.
These unique colors from the early 1980s were obviously marked with some pretty nasty issues but I am grateful that someone accomplished the leg work of bringing out their potency so that we can take that work and transform it into something useful in the garden.
New Years is just full of mildew every time I see it.
Betsy van der Hoek wrote: I hope Tom Silvers chimes in because he has made a similar cross and posted his result on HMF
Hi Betsy, sorry Iām so late in joining the discussion. What a goodāun! The cross I made was typical unnamed rugosa (fuschia/magenta or whatever youād call that color) X Rosa xanthina. It made a butter yellow hybrid that hasnāt ever produced a hip, but I think might have some degree of pollen fertility. Itās posted to HMF for anyone interested in seeing pictures.
Pierre Rutten wrote: Many to most yellow roses have more or less efficient anthocyanins supressors. Thatās also been my experience with xanthina, āHazeldeanā and [white] spinosissima used as pollen on typical dark-pink rugosa. All of the offspring have had the pinkness (anthocyanins) much reduced (sometimes almost completely absent). So I donāt think itās necessary at all, to limit the rugosa choices to only white ones. I think the yellow species types are very likely to inhibit the pinkness of the F1 anyway.
Max. E wrote: I know someone on here bred a BEAUTIFUL apricot rugosa hybrid seedlingā¦I forget who, but I wouldnāt be surprised if that could help open the door to yellower rugosas. That was probably my lone seedling of rugosa X āHazeldeanā that youāre thinking of. I had posted pictures earlier this Spring. Iāll see if I can find the thread.
I think the biggest issue any of these rugosa X yellow [species or close to species types] is going to present is the fertility problem.
Tom, Iām sure youāre right about the fertility problem. What I am hoping for is a few first-generation hybrids with fertile pollen I can use to cross back to rugosas. My one and only seedling so far hasnāt even bloomed yet, but shows an interesting combination of its parentsā characteristicsāsome crinkliness in the leaves from Schneezwerg, the seed parent, but otherwise closely resembling Xanthina in every other respect. What you have said about pink and yellow interactions makes me eager to try many new combinations.
I think youāre definitely on the right track - your plan (backcrossing to rugosa) is the most promising Iāve seen. I once had a batch of rugosa seeds that had set from pollen of the F1 rugosa X xanthina. Unfortunately I was paying more attention to other things at the time and never germinated any of them. I still think that strategy is the best way to proceed. I figure that you should still be able to maintain quite a bit of yellow expression (theoretically just as much as the F1) while hopefully improving fertility and rebloom. Actually regaining rebloom might be more of an issue than I used to think. I been noticing a pattern with the open-pollinated F2 populations from rugosa X [non-reblooming] speciesā¦ I havenāt found any rebloomers yet! Considering that Iāve been culling all but the most vigorous, maybe Iām eliminating the rebloomers by some linkage effect, but whatever the case, itās something thatās a little disappointing.
Iāve posted the link to the HelpMeFind post of that rugosa X xanthina hybrid below.
I can hardly wait to see pictures of your Schneezwerg X xanthina when it blooms. I hope itās a double version of that. That would be really pretty!
And Max, hereās the link to the picture Karl King had so graciously posted on his website for me of that rugosa X āHazeldeanā hybrid. Keep in mind that the bloom is relatively small (maybe golfball size at best).
Link: www.bulbnrose.org/Roses/Rose_Pictures/Rosa/RugosaXHazeldean.html
Tom with rugosa X xanthinia is very nice looking.
Thanks Adam.
Itās one that has gotten better with maturity. It took a long time to ābuild up steamā, but now that it has it definitely here to stay.
Iāve been trying to get everything moved to the new house and in digging pieces of this one the other day, I noticed how this hybrid seems to run underground even more than rugosa does. I donāt remember xanthina suckering at all, so itās odd that it seems to have amplified the rugosa suckering habit.
Tom
There are some new pix of Yellow Fairy on HMF now. Its The Fairy and Texas so its not escaping the miniature avenue, but its still an option.
Tom Iāve said it before but that apricot rugosa x Hazeldean is just gorgeous, itās a beautiful color. Is it consistently that cream color or does the coloring vary from blossom to blossom?
I take itās a once bloomer right?
Howdy all
Has anyone thought of using Vanguard in relation to this topic, I have heard it some times has rust , but the one here at home , I have had problem with rust. Growth wise its quite a strong grower, flowers are apricot pink with yellow occuring halfway down the petals, perfume is quite strong as well.
cheers warren
I meant to say ( I have had no problem with rust)
I have grown āVanguardā for about a decade, and it is one of the WORST offenders for Rust. No way would I ever attempt to use it in breeding. Dreadful plant, IMO.
Has anyone tried crossing Linda Campbell with some yellows?
No, but I have crossed Linda Campbellās sister, Magseed, with assorted yellows and gotten oranges. I have a variety of Magseed seedlings I am waiting to see first bloom on this year. I expect some interesting results.
Hi Paul,
I have only used Magseed rarely and have only kept one selection. How often do you see remontent seedlings coming from it?
Also regarding yellow rugosas, Mr. Moore developed a āYellow Thornless Rugosaā, does anyone else have it? He said that it was difficult to root, and that has certainly been my experience with it. I finally moved my plant up to a larger pot and hope to try it in breeding this year.
Jim Sproul