I joined this site recently, mostly to read as I am not a breeder but am interested in how roses are bred and what to look for in selecting roses for my garden. I live in an area west of Seattle on Puget Sound. It is heavily wooded, rains a lot. I have a lot of slugs but probably not as much blackspot as others in the PNW.
At any rate, I am just a gardener but want to understand as much as I can about roses. I am not belittling myself by labeling myself as âjust a gardenerâ but do want you to know what my primary interest is. At any rate âŚ
I purchased a climber by Olesen called âBoleroâ and introduced by Poulsen which is bred from âMorning Jewelâ x seedling. The reason I purchased it is because of this line in its description on helpmefind:
Courtyard climbers â a series in which the apical dominance of the terminal (end) bud has been reduced so that an abundance of lateral buds will form simultaneously.
Can anyone give me any insight as to what would one select in order to develop a climber like this? Or do you think this is hype? Or is this lessening of apical dominance a fairly typical trait on some climbers, but I just didnât know it?
I picked this to go on the side of an arbor, wanting something that might do well in the lower sun and milder temperatures up here and would not just bloom on the ends.
Kim, I did purchase your Annie Laurie for this spot, but it doesnât like the lack of sun and/or heat; it has grown very little in the last year and bloomed only one small bloom. Pretty thing, though. Gean
Thanks, Gean. I bought Bolero when it was introduced and planted it in my youngest sisterâs back yard. It exploded! Iâve never seen any indication of the reduction of apical dominance, but it has flowered well in their trees!
Well, Iâm glad it has flowered well for your sister. Iâm hoping up here it will keep its pink tinges.
My question probably sounds crazy, but Iâve never heard of a rose, climbing or other, that had reduced apical dominance, which I guess is what youâd need to breed for it as a characteristic. So mostly I just wondered if there were any roses that anyone knew about that did have reduced apical dominance. But maybe what I read was just hype, I donât know.
Apical dominance means that the stem keeps on growing and doesnât allow side branches to form. If you cut off the end, just one new shoot will come out and take charge again. If the apical dominance trait is really less, the the rose isnât supposed to grow so tall. And it might allow 3 or more shoots to grow when the tip is nicked off. Thatâs where the âcourtyardâ claim comes in. A tall shrub is a short climber sometimes. The Brownell roses (some anyway) are good examples, where they send out a long cane with a single flower cluster at the end, then have sideshoots blooming in the same season. Rhode Island Red is a perfect example.
Where you grow a bush really makes a difference though. For me Josephâs Coat, growing out in the open never got above 5 ft. But in a sheltered location with part day sun in town, it climbs right up 10 ft or so. The owners prune it to stay within bounds so I canât say how tall it might go if permitted.
Obviously for Kimâs sister Bolero loved to climb and presumably never had a freeze back to reduce it. If it froze to the snow line every winter it would be a lot shorter.
You might want a hybrid musk by Pemberton if you have low light. I assume you are looking for repeat blooming. If blackspot is not a problem adn you ahve mild coastal winters, many climbing hybrid teas might fill the bill as both repeating and climbing.
Courtyard climbers â a series in which the apical dominance of the terminal (end) bud has been reduced so that an abundance of lateral buds will form simultaneouslyâŚOr do you think this is hype?
All categories of roses are actually just marketing hype. Even (especially?) the ARS competition classes started out as marketing hype.
Or is this lessening of apical dominance a fairly typical trait on some climbers, but I just didnât know it?
Itâs marketing jargon swiped from a middle school biology text. Apical dominance is only one of many factors that control the growth pattern of a plant.
Can anyone give me any insight as to what would one select in order to develop a climber like this?
Nature only occasionally tosses surprises at us so itâs reasonable to expect progeny to look, to greater and lesser degrees, like both mama and papa. Choosing the parent roses is therefore the first concern. Make the cross and select progeny closest to what you were hoping for. Then rinse and repeat, very basic.
Itâs hard to know what Poulsens are pushing as being a âcourtyardâ rose because their website, http://poulsenroser.dk, is a re-work in progress. However, a quick look at the HMF descriptions for Bolero and for two other roses by Poulsen with Courtyard in their names indicates they are talking about relatively short, pillar style growth with lots blooms along the canes but not much elongation of side branches (not a rose you would espallier, for instance).
If this is what you are intending then you might try Kordes Brillant as a point of departure. Potential mates are Magic Wand, Morsoul, Dragonâs Blood and Incantation to add some branching and knock it down to courtyard size. Of course, it might already be the right size for your courtyard.
Ludvik Vecera might also be a point of departure but more challenging because it lacks remontancy and has only cyanidin as a pigment, although it has lots of it.
I didnât realize âthe apical dominance of the terminal (end) bud has been reducedâ was the concept behind âcourtyard climbersâ. I have the courtyard climber Presto, and it evidently didnât get the memo.
I suppose if I didnât have it trained to go vertically upwards, and allowed it to be more lax with its canes spreading outward horizontally, it would probably be less apically dominant. (Of course, pegging most climbers too would âreduce apical dominanceâ.)
I had thought the courtyards were generally just a more restrained lot, but if Bolero is as vigorous as Kim suggests, then you could probably train it upward to a point and then let it all hang out (so to speak) from there. Once the canes begin to cascade, I would expect very much âreduced apical dominanceâ as relative elevation of the terminal bud usually affects its dominance.
But, are you mainly interested in blooms along the canes? Many once-blooming species roses, such as some of the pimpernellifolia, do that rather freely.
Hereâs the description from a Hungarian site which had a description of the various Poulsen collections - The part about setting flowers all the way from the bottom of the plant with âno bare stems to be seenâ is what Iâm interested in and what Iâd understood the reduction in apical dominance to be about.
Courtyard collection - Climbing or rambling roses. The roses climb with the aid of their thorns or by training. The flowers are either double or semi-double. Several varieties have got flowers with the antique look and are also scented. The thing that differentiates the CourtyardĂÂŽ Collection from more traditional climbers and ramblers is the way they will set flowers all the way from the bottom of the plant. This way they provide ââŹĹflowering columnsââŹÂ with no bare stem to be seen. There are two types of roses in the CourtyardĂÂŽ Collection: CourtyardĂÂŽ Climbers, growing to a height of 150-200 cm and CourtyardĂÂŽ Ramblers which will grow to a height of 200-300 cm
Iâm guessing Kimâs Bolero and Philip_LAâs (Los Angeles?) Presto are taller than the designations because of your climates. Anyway, how itâs described, up to 9 feet and âflowering columnsâ is what I want. I know that apical dominance can be reduced by training laterally, but this is an arbor, not really room for training it that way, sure not going to pillar it, either.
I want it to do exactly what it is described to do above, but Iâm just curious about how a rose was developed to grow this way.
I only know âMorning Jewelâ from its description in Stephen Scannieloâs book on climbers and from growing âNew Dawnâ - ND definitely had bare legs and I did train that laterally on the sides of a deck.
Anyway, thanks for all the input and thoughts - I loved that mama/papa picture, thank you!
I imagine relations to polyantha would carry this trait. A rose like Flower Carpet Scarlet, for example, may be a good breeder for this. For example, Penny Lane x Flower Carpet Scarlet.
