Bracteata hybrid

General Discussion
1

I know I’ve posted this seedling before… but it’s impressing me more and more with age.

For it’s faults:

It’s a once-bloomer and it’s way to big for most gardens – right now it’s mounding up over my head (I’m just about 6 ft) and it’s more than that wide. I’ve never grown ‘Mermaid’ but I’m thinking this seedling will rival ‘Mermaid’ in size and vigor. I’d love to see what it would do with a large tree to climb into.

For it’s attributes:

incredible vigor, no disease problems at all here, nice scent, relatively large flowers

and although I haven’t been trying any intentional pollinations on it yet, it does set a few open-pollinated hips with just a few seeds in each (lots of aborted seeds). I’ve even got one of them germinated and growing into its second season. So there’s hope that it’s not a dead end.

Thanks for bearing with me, Tom

Link: www.geocities.com/tesilvers/rose/bracteata_hybrid.html

2

I think it’s beautiful. Any fragrance? It would be fun to try with the hybrid banksias.

What is the cross? Any chance for repeat in offspring?

3

Rosa bracteata X (rugosa X palustris)

Diploid, I presume?

AS a species cross, I see some real potential for its descendants… I remember some time back hearing of the pollen parent, and wondering about the habitats it might tolerate with the “beach rose” and “swamp rose” cross…

An attractive, healthy, and vigourous beast with fragrant blooms?? Yeah, Ok, we’ll bear with you, Tom.

:wink:

I think you’re ready to start crossing with some smaller repeat bloomers. You’re probably still two generations away from what you want, but as a “species” parent from which to start, I think ya got something with potential, personally.

Moore had some nice bracteatas through Muriel (Out of yesteryear, etc) and of course the rugosas can give very full flowered repeaters too, so I think you have a good start. (Helpmefind lists a couple of palustris/rugosa hybrids, but no descendants beyond them.) The R. palustris isn’t much used, but the few folk I know who have tried it feel it has potential. I was surprised to hear from someone on this forum that R.p. can rebloom.

Not that I’m the most experienced… But I think you have something to work with.

How wicked thorny is your beast?

4

I’ve just recently acquired pollen from my possible swamp rose… and I’m going to pollinate this on a OP seedling of Bracteate X Clinophylla. This is the seedling that roots in water.

I hope I can get interesting results like yours…

This seedling from Viru seems espcially interesting. It has rather frilly sepals and the petals come out from “bananas” (These are sepals within sepals… and it reminds me of a banana peel.)

The stems and buds are velvety to the touch too…

5

Thanks guys!

Robert, the hybrid has a moderate fruity-rose scent. As for repeat, I had hoped for that (in this generation), when I made the cross – figuring that 50% of the offspring would get rugosa repeat genes, which wouldn’t be cancelled out by the bracteata (which I’d read reblooms also). Unfortunately, this was not the case. Although it was late and long-blooming, bracteata never rebloomed for me here in Maryland. And all of the offspring are the same. I can still hope for rebloom in the next generation though.

Philip, I’m guessing it should be diploid too. And you’ve guessed it, it IS wickedly thorny… all the way up to its prickly hips. Even being careful, I got more than one needle jabbed into my fingertips trying to extract the few seeds.

The locally-collected Rosa palustris has never repeated for me, and none of the F1 (rugosa X palustris) have either. Even the small population of F2 (F1 selfed and sibbed) has no rebloomers in it. If I grew a bigger population of those, I would hope that I’d recover some that repeat.

And I like your suggestion of using a small repeater with this “beast”… I’m thinking that one of the yellow minis might make a good match.

Enrique, good luck with your cross. I tried something similar [bracteata X palustris] and got lots of seeds but none would germinate. Very frustrating! But on the bright side, bracteata X rugosa didn’t work for me either. My point being, since rugosa didn’t work for me but its hybrid did, that maybe by using a hybrid (bracteata/clinophylla hybrid) instead of the straight species, you might have better luck with palustris itself. In any case, don’t give up! I tried quite a few species crosses with bracteata, before this one worked for me.

And on that note, I’m not too excited yet, because I’ve had so many frustrations with Rosa laevigata. And I don’t want to tip my hand yet [on the exact parentage]… but I have tried a bunch more species crosses on laevigata this season, and it seems that one of them is making the hips greener and fatter than usual. I sure would love to have another laevigata hybrid to work with, other than the runty little one (that’s never even bloomed) that I got from laevigata X (multiflora or helenae).

Thanks again, Tom

6

I think a fertile laevigata cross has to be the one of the holy grails of rose hybridizing. I would love to incorporate laevigata with my evergreen lines.

I have a few hips maturing from laevigata crosses I made this Spring but most of my attempts have aborted already as usual.

I told myself I wasn’t going to bother this year but hope springs eternal.

7

There’s something else, here, that I might be the only one to appreciate (as in cheers, bells and whistles). That is, you seem to have retained bracteata’s leaves. The leaves could be very important, because the mites that spread Rose Rosette Disease don’t seem to recognize R. bracteata leaves as “roses” so they move on to other plants. (Kassar’s PhD dissertation at WVU).

This is one rose that deserves to be propagated and planted near RRD to see if it gets RRD or not.

Ann

8

Robert, I’ve already figured out that I’ll probably never give up completely on the laevigata thing, so at least it’s good to know I’ll have company in my efforts ;0)

Keep on tryin’!

And I’ve thought about that connection between bracteata and RRD resistance… we get a lot of that around here, so I’ll probably get a good chance to test it. And even if this particular seedling is still recognized by the mites, there’s a good chance one of its varied siblings might not be – there’s a lot of variation in foliage among these guys.

Keep those fingers crossed, Tom

9

Tom,

bracteata sp. repeat blooms consistantly for me, if you’d like to send one down here to see if it’s a regional thing.

My laevigatas set from 7 to 16 seeds per hip of those I counted. And it must be said that both my laevigatas survived the Easter freeze of three nights at 18F (there was a max min thermometer next to them) while in this part of the world Hybrid Teas were dropping like flies. The laevigatas lost one year old canes, but two year old and older canes, although damaged are putting out new growth although they aren’t putting out a second set of bloom buds- the first were lost.

Bracteatas regrew their leaves but aren’t showing new bloom buds yet. The bracteatas were cane tip hardy through the refreeze.

Ann

10

Wow, very nice hybrid. It even sets seed, but maybe using it as pollen parent would work well too. You did a great job, knowing that Louis Lens, who tried the R. bracteata x R. rugosa cross failed to obtain fertile hybrids that would carry the line further.

I would try the pollen on everything!

Rob

11

The bracteatas here at the Nat’l Arboretum in DC also rebloom constantly through the season. Maybe it’s a clone difference issue rather than a regional one. It might pay to repeat the cross with a different bracteata parent.

It’s gorgeous - and I’m guessing too that a second generation should give lots of variation in repeat blooom and plant size. I can hardly imagine a tougher rose than one combining bracteata and rugosa genes in equal measure.

12

Very beautiful Tom!

Jim Sproul

13

Well Tom,

I have kept a seedling of this possible swamp rose, and when I pollinated this hip-- its parent was Basye’s Amphi.

At first, I believed it was a self pollination because it didn’t look any different from the plant. But after 3 years in its abandoned spot in the garden, I took a look at it and found out that it’s heavily armed just like Basye’s Amphi and the foilage looks rathery willowy and hemp like. I’m taking interest because now I feel it’s a hybrid and not a self pollinated seedling.

Maybe in the future you may enjoy working with this hybrid… it’s essentially a paulstrisXrugosa cross–

Today, I just pollinated it with my seedling of kordesii X basye’s amphi.

I wish I can know if this is truly the swamp rose-- even though I hardly work with it, it’s so beautiful that I kept it. I’m “very” sure about it being swamp rose, but until I got a few people confirming it… I just call it the possible swamp rose.

14

I got a probable palustris hybrid last season. It’s not what I expected. It repeats which doesn’t make sense but then it doesn’t look like a self either. I almost wonder whether it’s the result of a chance pollination.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=49790&tab=10