Blanc double de coubert

I am thinking about some roses to get as parents for a little breeding idea in my head, and am considering Blanc double de coubert. It seems to be a wonderful rose on all fronts, but I am unsure of fertility. Has anyone bred with it? Helpmefind lists one first generation decendent, so it is obviously possible to breed with it, but that doesn’t mean it is a super good parent either.

(It is good to be back, by they way – I’ve been in Japan the last little while. And no, didn’t bring anything cool(plant wise) back with me – was too scared of it being a huge pain at customs – though at the last minute I decided I had to try any take something home, so I got a few packets of very uninteresting seeds – and customs wasn’t any problem at all! I told them I had plants, but they didn’t so much as ask what they were, just sent me on my way like everyone else. If I had know THAT I would have taken a lot more home. But oh well. It was fun.)

Welcome back Joseph-- I was wondering about you about 3 days ago. Japan, wow. Are you training? I have a friend in Japan training for the worst to come… Welcome back.

bddc is not a fully infertile rose in my case, but I keep it because it is beautiful. It does make hips occasionally, but none of its seed have germinated-- yet. I used the Fairy last spring.

I have never seen hips on my BDdC in it’s 9 years. If it does ever produce for you then Im fairly sure the offspring would be wonderful because BDdC is a wonderfully unique plant.

For me it produced two OP hips in the fall of 2001. Quite

a few seeds in each hip as I remember. Six quick sprouts

after 3 months cold stratification. They havn’t bloomed or

anything yet, maybe this spring.

Mine gets quite a few hips because its surrounded by other diploids. I haven’t tried it with other pollen, but the few ops I got a few years back were all insipid lavender pink, so I didn’t proceed. Its not all that hardy. In cold winters in zone 5 there’s quite a bit of cane loss though the plant itself comes through okay.

By the way, all the canes on Nova Zembla that built up over the past few warm winters are dead to the ground. There have been other winters when all the canes were lost, but the plant itself was fine. I have op seedlings from it this year. Strangely some of them are not all that thorny, which is a pleasant surprise.

There appears to be quite a bit of dead wood on Topaz Jewel.

This spring will be a good time to find out what is hardy in a colder winter.

Speaking of Topaz Jewel…

Does someone know what happened to Bob Byrnes? It’s been a very long while since I’ve heard from him. He had a Topaz Jewel seedling that a good many people were intrested, but he disappeared.

Bob’s web site is still at, but it doesn’t look like he has updated it recently. There is a link to his email on his site if you want to contact him.


Welcome back Joseph! Whatever happened with your rubus hybrids? Interested parties are dying to know.

A friend has BdC next to a couple of other rugosa’s and gets a few hips each year. I’ve never tried germinating them. Someone else has told me that Therese Bugnut was pretty good to use in wide crosses. I haven’t used TB, but I’ve got a OP seedling of TB that has been a very willing parent in wide crosses.

Enrique–I think it was Bob Williams (Runner) that had the Topaz Jewel seedling. Or at least he had one, but I believe he said he lost it fairly early on. I’ve got two TJ seedlings, but neither show any rugose traits. One is with TJ as the pollen parent (the better seedling). I’m not sure on the other one whether TJ was pollen or seed parent–but it gave me one bloom (2001 indoors) and hasn’t bloomed since. It is also weak and prone to mildew. I intend to use TJ pollen again this year.


The rubus hybrids, Joan, are out in my garden. They look, sadly, very much like nothing but a selfing of the rubus, but I am not quite giving up all hope until they bloom for the first time – which I am hoping they will do this summer. I will of course let everyone know if they turn out to be successful.

Looking at the references and discussion on HMF about this one, I am surprised to discover that BDdC has the Tea rose Sombreuil as a pollen parent. If this is true it might make him more useful than I thought.
I have searched this forum but can’t find much information about using BDdC as a pollen parent.
I am curious about any results anyone may have had with him, especially when trying to put his pollen on something non-rugosa.
And while I 'm at it, I wonder if, since he is only half rugosa, his offspring might be more likely to have juvenile blooms?

I owned it 20 years ago. It’s an absolutely gigantic, towering rose. Well, more accurately, it mounds upwards and outwards like a massive cloud shape. At least here. I never saw it set a single hip, and quite honestly, I would have never tried to germinate it either.

Hi Pacificjade,
I saw all the posts about the low amount of hips, and as you mentioned it’s too big for my purposes, that’s why I was thinking of using it’s pollen instead. At this point I’m just looking at what I have in the garden and how I might be able to use it.
The reported Tea in its lineage makes me wonder if it might have a better chance of giving me earlier flowering than other rugosas. Or maybe it’s just totally sterile like Wild Edric!
I just tried BDdC pollen on Eyes for You today. I’ll see what happens, if anything. I’m not expecting a blotch. Just testing everything I can right now!

Sombreuil has been mis-ID’d over its lifetime, so its hard to fathom BDdC’s correct linage. So who knows.

I used Blanc as a seed parent one year: with modern shrub pollen I got a couple of hips. Only two or three germinations, all of which died that summer. We moved or I would have tried it more crossing in both directions. It was more agreeable than Martin Frobisher, although Therese Bugnet was even more so.
I will be curious to see what happens if you work with its pollen.

I only tried Blanc’s pollen on Eyes for You, about two weeks ago. The pollen was pretty abundant and I did it for two consecutive days but it seems EfY didn’t want it, nothing seems to be happening. I’ll have to try it again on some other roses and will post any results here!

I love the pure white no pink. The plant flowers in the middle of our wet season. All the blooms ball.