Wow that’s a really cool cross! Very pretty flower and foliage, and with fertility to boot! Very interesting that there was two seedlings with juvenile or at least early-ish bloom even from a cross with straight rugosa. May I ask: how many siblings were there in total? It would be interesting to get an idea of the proportion.
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I believe there were seven or eight total seedlings that survived long enough to go outside (this wasn’t a particularly serious cross, so I didn’t track it as closely as some others). Some others died before even reaching the point of flowering–mostly because they took so long, but cane borers don’t wait, and I let the area where they were planted get a bit overgrown with other plants. Just one more sibling managed to flower after a couple of years, but it did not have a particularly good flower color or shape and had more blackspot.
This photo didn’t quite capture the color right, but here was the other relatively precocious seedling from the cross:
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2/8 is really good! Much better than I would have expected to happen.
Thank you for sharing your results @MidAtlas ! That’s a large and lovely flower. Very interesting to see what that combo between Rugosa Alba and Mutabilis can do.
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In 2023 I’ve used Schneezwerg again, but as a pollenparent on a diploid musk rose with very good repeat-flowering. 264 seeds gave me 52 germinations, but the seedlings were prone to disease. Kept the 6 best and 3 of them flowered a few months later, the other 3 didn’t and I disposed of them. Of those 3 juvinile bloomers I only kept one after a check at the start of this year, the strongest. One of the weaker two suffered from frost and didn’t grow strong enough, the other one I disposed of had a really strange condition in wich every intersection of two nodes had some sort of corcky cellstructure. The whole plant, every joint of two nodes had it without exception. Some growing disorder I guess. So now in 2025 I have one very beautifull rose that is the perfect mix of the two parents. This is a picture. She has been moved to my trial plot and I’ll try her as a pollen parent (I don’t think she will set hips).
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That is a really beautiful hybrid @KarzlBvn, congratulations!
And thanks so much for this update on your results with Schneezwerg. That’s a very good proportion of juvenile bloomers!
About the corky growth thing you observed on stem intersections, I’ve noticed that in a couple of my rugosa hybrids too. It didn’t show at first, but really does later on as the stems become woodier and branch out. Perhaps it’s some kind of side-effect of the mix of rugosa genes with other?
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I think so too.
I believe Austin mentioned something in regard of the rose Fimbriata, which is a rugosa x Mme. Alfred Carrière. That the frilled edges of the petals are a genetic defect due to the great genetic gap of both parents.
The greater that gap, the more of these strange deviations one could expect, I guess. Especially with Rugosa. They seem to be extra prone to such things.
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I got one self of Frimbrata this year, so far no germination… Do you think it’s likely it will keep it’s pretty deformity into it’s seedlings?
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Hi @James_D
I love Fimbriata’s blooms, but a quick search doesn’t seem to show any descendants. Hips are reportedly rare so the fact that you even have seeds is already great, and if you get any germination that’ll be even more special. I hope your seeds will germinate and look forward to any updates on this!
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I find hips very common, however finding a seed In those hips is the very rare part. 3 years with many many hips and only 1 seed! My hopes were up when I got it but I haven’t seen any movement from it yet. It’s been a bad year for me so far, however I have had 5 roses up recently, 2 that I’m quite excited about
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Finally got one!
OP Snow Pavement
The prickles are a bit crazy, but it’s a rugosa so that’s ok. It stood out from all it’s siblings very early on for its vigor and thick main cane. I didn’t expect it to also be the one to form buds within six months.
There were about 30 seedlings originally, which I gradually thinned out to only 8 now by selecting for vigor.This is the only juvenile bloomer of that small batch. I’ll update when those buds open.
This one will be fun to experiment with, and I hope to finally find out what I’ve been wanting to know about the heritability of juvenile bloom in rugosas!
Will selfed seedlings from this juvenile blooming rugosa show blooms within six months in a higher proportion?
When crossing this rose with a modern repeating rose, will the odds of juvenile bloomers be higher than they were with Snow Pavement itself?
Answers in 2026… I hope!
Side note: there were two seedlings in that batch that showed variegated leaves. Vigor wasn’t bad, but I ended up tossing both of those back in February because the white parts fried to brown in a matter of days, even in the weak sun we had back then.
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Really interesting results! While it’s too bad that the variegated seedlings didn’t pan out, a line of juvenile-flowering rugosa hybrids would be very useful for speeding up the process of breeding and selection. I just decided to try Snow Pavement this year myself, so this gives me something additional to hope for.
Stefan
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@MidAtlas
IMO Snow Pavement is wonderful, both as a plant and for hybridizing. She wasn’t a very willing seed parent and made very few seeds the first two years (purchased bare root, grown in a pot), but last year that improved dramatically. She can get a touch of powdery mildew but just a little and shrugs it off easily. I’m sure you’ll enjoy her!
This morning, the seedling opened her first bloom. Same color as SP but single. Fragrance is strong, just like SP!
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Update:
I can hardly believe it, but now nearing 7 months, a second OP Snow Pavement seedling has a bud. So that’s 2/8!
This seedling is less vigorous than the first (they all are), but also somewhat less prickly.
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Update on this batch:
There are TWO more seedlings with buds/blooms, bringing the total of first year flowering Snow Pavement seedlings to an incredible 4/8. These are less vigorous, and less fragrant, so I might not end up keeping them all, exept one that is a very double white and might stay IF it finishes the summer strong.
Also, that most vigorous first one is not only setting at least one OP hip from its first blooms, but is also reblooming rapidly. This afternoon I’ll take some pollen from whatever floribunda is ready right now just to see if it’ll accept it. This would allow me to test both of my questions in one season.
And while I usually don’t like suckering in my pots, I will make an exception here! It’s sending out four suckers already, which I look forward to rooting in the fall to have more copies of this wonderful seedling to experiment with.
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