I hear this particular Gallicas rose has very good disease resistance, anyone had any luck using it’s pollen or having It as a mother?
1 Like
To my experience in humid zone 9a climate, Gallicas are relatively healthy compared to many moderns and OGRs like Bourbons. But note that “typical” Gallicas are “pure” TETRAPLOID once bloomers, so you might need many generations and seedlings to get a repeat flowering offspring.
If you still want to try Gallicas, I recommend Duchesse de Montebello (hybrid China, Laffay, 1824). Although It is a triploid once blooming hybrid China, it has “typical” Gallica characters ( dense, round shrub; slender stems with weak prickles; ovate, matte, drooping leaflets and typical old-fashioned fragrant flowers). Its KSN genotype might be ksn/KSN/KSN which means it carries a reblooming allele. ‘Marianne’ (DdM × Abraham Darby) ‘Marianne’ Rose (helpmefind.com) is one of its offspring inherited DdM’s character but still once blooming, perhaps you can try to create reblooming ones from this line.
Note that DdM seems has no or very few pollen so you might have to use it as seed parent only.
2 Likes
I can’t speak to its health there, but Paul Barden has had a pretty good rate of success using Tuscany Superb. I tried it once from bare roots which had received sufficient chill to flower (they wouldn’t in my climate), succeeding in raising Sequoia Ruby X Tuscany Superb. 'Sequoia Ruby X Tuscany Superb' Rose
2 Likes
I all ready have a few Gallicas. I have all ready imported in what I had read on here was the healthiest Gallicas which was Ipsilante, which has nothing wrong with it at all! Being naive and uneducated in the matter I have been crossing them with Portland’s and damask perpetuals (which are slightly less healthy) my hopes being that I can get rebloom, while passing over some of the health of the best Gallicas/some spino blood. So am I to understand that the first generation crosses are very unlikely if at all to possess rebloom? Would it matter if they are pollen parents or the mother plants? Thank you for your time!
1 Like
I have limited space but have considered Tuscany superb as I had looked through all of Paul’s creations on helpmefind. However I also have a giant Charles De Mills, which is spectacular and has more features that I enjoy. I have been very successful this year in setting hip and collecting a lot of seed. So am hoping I can get the colour and some of the favourable features from that. My hopes about the Gallica I originally posted about is that it is the only Gallica listed as “Excellent” disease resistance from a nursery I trust over any other in my country. To that point it is even rated higher than Jacques cartier which is perfect in my climate. Which is why I was wondering if anyone had ever seen hips on it… As I am willing to play the long game to get healthy Gallica like foliage with limited rebloom/ Gallica/Portland fragrance
1 Like
Generally rebloom in roses (from China roses) is recessive, determined by the gene called RoKSN. The roses with only ksn are rebloomers while ones with KSN (no matter homozygous or heterozygous) are generally once bloomers or at least Occasional repeat bloomers.
According to some genotyping results in papers, Gallicas seems to be homozygous KSN in this genotype, so in theory it’s impossible to get rebloomers in the first generation no matter what to cross with. For the second or higher generations, consider that Gallicas, Portlands, damasks and most Modern roses are generally tetraploid, you can deduce the result according to the following table (Gallicas: AAAA, Portlands: usually Aa??, typical Moderns: aaaa).
The actual result might be more complex due to many issues, but at least in theory it is possible to get rebloomers in the second generation, but compare to diploid lines you need much more seedlings in the second generation.
Since tetraploid roses are generally self-compatible, in theory the direct could not influence the ratio of phenotype like this in the seedling populations. What you might take into consideration is the possibility to set hips and the efficiency to get more seedlings. Note that some extremely double flowers may produce many little pollen while some infertile varieties seldom set hips.
According to my observation in my climate, Portlands like Comte de Chambord - in commerce is nearly as healthy as Gallicas and rebloom well like HTs (but the shoots are longer), perbaps you can use its pollen on gallicas or F1 seedlings. Or maybe you can try some Austins which are repeat bloomers with OGR look. I’m not focus on this direct so sorry I can’t offer more advice.
3 Likes
Thank you for your long and informative reply. I will be able to confirm what you had said in the first generation in the next few years. I didn’t think they would be rebloomers first generation. However the plan was to backcross pollen back onto the portlands in the next generation to hopefully get some rebloom. I also some repeating spino damask perpetuals (stanwell, Paula vapelle, Mon amie Claire) into the portlands. I really want healthy foliage which isn’t glossy and has the blueish hue to it. I really love gardening (used to be a gardener for work) and my style in borders really relies on leaf form and colour. So I can’t stand disease on roses or unnatural form of the bush itself or leaf that’s glossy and doesnt go with perennial flowers I like to use. I don’t mind once flowering roses if they are very healthy and have great scent and pastel colours (and deep purples). Basically I want something very specific and it’s unlikely I will actually get it. However I hope I will get something unique that I will like none the less
3 Likes
In our fourth climate zone,the rose “Belle sans Flatterie” does not bear fruit and has almost no pollen.
1 Like
Thank you for telling me 
1 Like