Does anyone have any experience with the use of the Bayer Advanced All-in-One Rose and Flower Care System, granular or concentrate? They advertised in the ARS May-June 2016 magazine. I would appreciate suggestions or comments on this product. I have usually sprayed once a year with the Spectrocide Fungicide product, and some years not at all. I had fair to good results with that. I have about 170 roses and I’ve tried to cull out the most black spot susceptible ones or hybridize for resistance to disease. Here in the Oregon Willamette Valley we have some black spot but not powdery mildew problems on most roses. Keeping roses healthy in the ground and fed and watered properly goes a long way toward disease resistance. I don’t have any aphid problem here yet. We’re about 100 miles east of the Pacific Ocean and separated by a mountain range, so I don’t know the problems of growers on the Oregon Coast.
Impact on Honey Bees3
Toxicity category: I - Do not apply to blooming plants
Notes: Soil-applied imidacloprid can move into nectar, so don’t apply prior to bloom.
This is just what one toxicity evaluation had to say. Maybe 5-6 yrs ago (now the formula is “improved” which often means more toxic) I had several neighbors who used it and we used to have very few nectar eaters (butterflys, bees, etc.) in the immediate neighborhood. It has improved somewhat and more than one of my neighbors have switched to less toxic forms of sprays–but not everybody I am sure. Bees are down again in visibility this year.
Hi John,
I try to avoid the all in ones too like Jackie. I suspect these all in ones are marketed to take the guess work out and are appealing for that reason. The ingredients should be pretty effective. These all in ones are somewhat expensive in the end I save money buying and administering the fertilizer separately and then the insect and disease control that are needed just when they are needed.
I’ve gotten rid of many of my more disease susceptible roses too and just spot spray the few more susceptible ones I still have with one of a couple fungicides I have to have a little bit of rotation so resistance to the chemical doesn’t build. For insects, the past few years I’ve stepped back and have generally used nothing and have been happier. For instance, I have some aphids beginning to flare up now, but there are lady bugs starting to control them and multiplying, which is great. Hover flies also come and get them, but I haven’t seen them yet this year. Relatively soon after an outbreak the beneficials tend to build I’m noticing. Before when I’d use insecticides to control an outbreak of aphids like this, there was a knock down at first, but then they’d seem to explode more soon after with knocking out the beneficials too.
I haven’t used the Bayer systemic (either type) in almost a year and a half, but the liquid could be an issue in hot, arid conditions (probably not what you might encounter). It was easy to damage (and even kill) plants which could experience extreme heat issues with it, even when using it with extreme caution. I had two situations I had to use it in with a particular client’s garden. She insisted upon growing a Barbara Streisand by her east facing front door, which was a narrow strip, not quite a foot and a half wide, surrounded by many square yards of concrete drive, many square feet of plate glass and stucco and a huge brick porch. From about May through late September, no matter how much water that plant received, it was cooked by the reflected/radiated heat and sun and was always full of spider mites, scale, mildew and black spot. It couldn’t be sprayed with anytyhing (even water) because it would foul her beloved picture window. The rose couldn’t be removed because it was a gift from her deceased sister, so the systemic was the only way to almost have that awful variety perform in that horrendous situation. Even kept very well watered and making completely sure none of the product splashed anywhere on the plant itself, the heat experienced in that position made it extremely easy to damage the plant with the liquid systemic. It was also the only product I could find which eliminated the Florida Scale on the huge Pandorea that covered the south wall of her garage. There was constant wind and her two, large Golden Retrievers to contend with, combined with the size of the plant, which made spraying impossible. I used the Bayer as a last resort and it did the trick. Otherwise, I avoided (and still do) using it or any other pesticide/fungicide in clients’ and my own garden, whenever possible.
John,
I agree with those who say to avoid the Bayer Advanced All-in-One It’s an awfully expensive way to buy fertilizer–and routine, indiscriminate spraying of insecticide will decrease the number of beneficials in your rose garden. If you need to control black spot and powdery mildew, Bayer Advanced Disease Control for Roses, Flowers & Shrubs works pretty well. It’s a spray, and its active ingredient is tebuconazole (which you could maybe use to cure athlete’s foot? It’s related to the ingredients in some over-the-counter athlete’s foot remedies), and you can use it without killing the beneficial insects in your garden–or paying a very high price for fertilizer.
Peter
I do not recommend a tebuconazole based fungicide (precautionary principle). See:
That sounds really scary!
our findings suggest a potential risk of triazole fungicides to human pregnancy.
Maybe the precautionary principle is to avoid being pregnant? Or to avoid getting pregnant if planning to use such a fungicide.
Most of us drive vehicles that burn gasoline. The fumes from gasoline (such as one inhales when filling the tank, or when others fill their tanks nearby) are also known to be harmful to people, and not just to those who are pregnant. Exhaust fumes likewise have the potential for harm to humans and other animals. Our lives are full of hazards that are much greater than that posed by carefully used tebuconazole-based fungicides. Even in the best water systems (and swimming pools, for those who have such or use such) chlorination is used to kill bacteria. The chlorine breaks down, but it’s toxic. Skip the chlorination and get diseases. Here in Charleston, WV we have had to deal with chemical contamination of our water supply, and with the exhalations of coal-burning power plants–in addition to the previously mentioned things. And then of course there is the harm inflicted annually by the legislature . . .
Use, or don’t use, as you wish. There are hazards in everything, and some hazards are very slight in comparison to others. As you know, there are lots of studies, and some of them are hazardous to us too.
Peter
As far as I can tell this link gives the present label for the Bayer product:
Bayer Advanced Disease Control for Roses, Flowers & Shrubs
Science-Based Lawn & Garden Care | Bioadvanced
I did not see any warning concerning pregnancy and spraying.
The following is the MSDS for another tebuconazole product:
http://www.prime-sourcellc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Tebuconazole-3-6F-Select-SDS.pdf
Please note the following:
“TOXIC TO REPRODUCTION (Unborn child) - Category 2”
ALSO
“Suspected of damaging the unborn child.”
ALSO
“Inhalation:
Adverse symptoms may include the following:
reduced fetal weight
increase in fetal deaths
skeletal malformations”
ALSO
"Skin contact: Adverse symptoms may include the following:
reduced fetal weight
increase in fetal deaths
skeletal malformations"
ALSO
"Ingestion: Adverse symptoms may include the following:
reduced fetal weight
increase in fetal deaths
skeletal malformations"
ALSO:
“California Prop. 65
WARNING: This product contains less than 0.1% of a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer.
WARNING: This product contains less than 1% of a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other
reproductive harm.”
ALSO
" Avoid exposure during pregnancy. "
Henry,
As you note, the present label for the Bayer Advanced Disease Control for Roses, Flowers & Shrubs does not specifically mention to avoid use while pregnant. Perhaps you should write to Bayer to ask that a specific caution (DO NOT USE IF YOU ARE PREGNANT!) be provided.
However, the label does provide the following caution–something that any pregnant person would probably be cautious enough to pay attention to:
CAUTION
• Harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through skin.
• Washing hands thoroughly with soap and water after handling and before eating,
drinking, chewing gum or using tobacco will reduce exposure.
• Avoid contact with skin, eyes or clothing.
• Removing and washing contaminated clothing before reuse may reduce exposure.
• Avoid breathing vapor or spray mist.
• When using this product, wear long-sleeved shirt, long pants, socks, shoes and
rubber gloves.
NOTICE: Research and testing have determined that the “Directions For Use” are
appropriate for the proper use of this product under expected conditions. The Buyer
assumes responsibility for lack of performance or safety if not used according to the
directions.
If someone is pregnant and does not heed the cautions given for use of Bayer Advanced Disease Control for Roses, Flowers & Shrubs, perhaps she will have to be responsible for any consequences.
I would venture to say that any woman who grows roses and is pregnant will be very cautious about fungicide and insecticide use.
Alcohol abuse during pregnancy is a much more significant issue, as is smoking during pregnancy. Alcohol and tobacco products do have various warnings on their labels, but habits are hard to break.
You mentioned another product as a comparison to the Bayer Advanced fungicide.
The other tebuconazole-containing product you mention contains 38.70% tebuconazole. It is not sold for home use.
The Bayer Advanced Disease Control for Roses, Flowers & Shrubs contains 2.90% tebuconazole and is sold for home use.
The commercial product you mentioned has 13.34 times as much tebuconazole as the Bayer product intended for home use. The comparison does not seem either useful or relevant.
Various azole antifungals are used to treat human fungal infections. The effects of some of these are explored in this article:
http://fetal-exposure.org/antifungals/
Although some of these antifungals seem to increase the number of birth defects and spontaneous abortions when used in the first trimester of pregnancy, the increase is very slight, and the authors of the study suggest that positive effects outweigh the negative. There is no mention of tebuconazole as a treatment for fungal infections of the body.
Peter
The following was stated: “The commercial product you mentioned has 13.34 times as much tebuconazole as the Bayer product intended for home use. The comparison does not seem either useful or relevant.”
H.Kuska comment. The point is that tebuconazole is considered to have a potential risk to human pregnancies. I first cited a very recent 2016 reviewed published scientific article. The second earlier link is to a MSDS of a concentrate which is diluted before use on ornamentals and residental landscapes . (“Apply Tebuconazole 3.6 Select at rates of 4-10 fl. oz. per acre in 100 gallons of water”).
ALSO
“HOW MUCH TO USE FOR SMALL PLANTINGS: ADD 1 TEASPOON TO 2.5 GALLONS OF WATER.”
http://www.prime-sourcellc.com/products/tebuconazole-3-6-select/
http://www.prime-sourcellc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Tebuconazole-3.6-Select-Spec-Label_Final.pdf
Even in dilute form the following is stated on the label:
" Do not use on home lawns and turf sites associated with apartment buildings, daycare centers, playgrounds, playfields, recreational park athletic fields, athletic fields located on or next to schools (i.e., elementary, middle and high school), campgrounds, churches, and theme parks. "
Concerning the fact that other azoles have drug positive uses. The chemical side groups and the formulation (other often secret ingredients) contribute to the chemical/physical properties of a product.
The following was stated: “I would venture to say that any woman who grows roses and is pregnant will be very cautious about fungicide and insecticide use.”
H.Kuska comment. I prefer sharing my scientific knowledge about possible dangers so that the reader can decide whether to apply the Precautionary Principle.
Thanks to this discussion, everyone is well informed about the need for precautions when using any product containing tebuconazole.