Basye's Amphidiploid + Basye's Legacy + Commander Gillette = HUH?

General Discussion
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1

Could someone please clarify the difference between these roses by breaking down the breeding for me? I have looked on Helpmefind, but I’m not entirely sure the stated breeding is right.

Many thanks,

Mike

2

I would also be interested in hearing more about Basye and why there seems to be such strong interest in his roses.

Chris Mauchline

P.S. I did look at the breeding listed in HelpMeFind.com, but I’m not sure what exactly your question is about these 3 roses of Basye. From what is on the web site, BA is unrelated to BL or CG. CG has similar breeding to BL, but may or may not be related.

The three roses listed breeding:

Basye’s Amphidiploid

R. moschata abysinnica

X R. rugosa rubra

Basye’s Legacy

R. carolina

X Hugh Dickson

Commander Gillette (‘Basye’s Thornless’?)

R. carolina alba

X Seedling of R. carolina x Hugh Dickson

(In the notes on this rose the breeding is listed as

R. carolina x Hugh Dickson)

3

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/rose/basyeen.htm

http://www.rdrop.com/~paul/rugosas/basyes.html

http://members.aol.com/mmmavocad3/Rugosas.html

I think this will give you some idea of what Robert Basye was breeding over a 50 year love affair with roses.

:O)

4

Sigh I’ve been trying to tell Steve about this. Okay here it is.

Basye’s Amphidiploid (65-626)

seedling of R. moschata abysinnica x R. rugosa

Note: no chemicles were used to induce tetraploidy. Just like R. kordesii, it was an open pollinated seedling that had doubled chromosomes. I even have the ARS article in text format for those intrested.

Basye’s Legacy (77-361)

Basye’s Amphidiploid x Commander Gillette

Commander Gillette

seedling of a seedling of R. carolina X Hugh Dickson

Basye’s Blueberry

Commander Gillette x ((Commander Gillette x (R. virginiana alba x Betty Morse))

Belinda’s Dream

Jersey Beauty x Tiffany

Basye’s Myrrh-Scented Rose

(R. macrantha x Dickson’s Red) x Prima Ballerina

There were others, but I have to dig that info at another time.

5

Enrique,

Thanks. I had thought that I saw much different info on the parentage than what was posted up at helpmefind. I’m curious. Where were you able to ascertain all of that information?

Mike

6

I even have the ARS article in text format for those intrested.

I would be interested in the article.

Thanks,

Chris Mauchline

P.S. It appears from reading that Belinda’s Dream is infertile – Correct?

P.P.S. Where would one locate a plant or cuttings of the Amphidiploid?

crm

7

Besides the amphidiploid, what other of Basye’s roses are good breeding stock (and why?)

thanks,

Chris Mauchline

8

I got my info from the older American rose annuals. But right now I don’t have time to cite. Chris expect a letter tonight with an attachment.

I wouldn’t say Belinda’s Dream is infertile, at least not right now. I haven’t used her, but it could be a fertile triploid like New Dawn.

The Probable Amphidiploid is growing at the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden. I was fortunate to access pollen from it two years ago and made lots of crosses with various roses, mainly with Abraham Darby, and Prospero. Abe and Prospero gave me lots of seedlings. Snails killed off all of my Prospero x 65-626 seedlings and many of the Abe seedlings, but one did survive and I’ve pampered it. It’s been very healthy with leaves like that of abyssinica, but like rugosa, they’re turning yellow and falling in autumn. Next year I hope for at least one flower.

9

Chris,

I have a couple of F2 seedlings of the Amphidiploid if you are interested. One is dwarf and repeats, and one is huge and does now repeat. Either one may produce remontant offspring when mated with the right thing. Both are highly disease resistant.I can send cuttings next year, or if you have any skill at budding, I can send budwood now.

Paul

10

Please email me and I will send you my address.

I’d be interested in both. By dwarf and huge I assume you mean the size of the plant, or the flower?

I’m skilled at grafting, but my budding success isn’t the

best (I’ve mainly tried peach, which has definite heat requirements), and I really don’t have available rootstock, plus, I’m in the process of building an “air-stone” propagator.

By F2, is it your 2nd generation from Amphidiploid, or are you counting the Amphidiploid as F1?

Chris Mauchline

11

Whew!

I was looking at HelpMeFind too and boy it’s all confused. So, I went to the link below (an article by Basye), and wrote down what I read. I looks like Enrique’s got it right about Basye’s Legacy, Basye’s Amphidiploid and Commander Gillette; except that I think Commander Gillette should have the (65-626) after it instead of Basye’s Amphidiploid. This article doesn’t mention the others, so I’ll go with what Enrique says about those also. Thanks for helping to clear up the confusion guys. By the way, it sounds like Commander Gillette and Basye’s Legacy are both very fertile with the tetraploid modern roses.

Link: www.bulbnrose.com/Roses/breeding/gillette.htm

12

Tom,

That’s a good point about the fertility of Commander Gillette and Basye’s Legacy with tetraploids. I know Kim Rupert has done some work with Legacy. Has anyone on the forum done work with any of these roses? If so, what have results turned out to be?

Thanks,

Mike

13

opps, yeah your right Tom. I re-read the article, and for some reason I read it very wrong. 65-626 isn’t the amphidiploid, but Commander Gillette. Thanks for catching it.

Uncommonrose.com sells Commander Gillette, but I’m reluctant to buy it. I know that for some time there was some confusion of Commander Gillette and Basye’s Legacy. I already have Legacy, and don’t want to have CG unless I know that it’s really is CG.