Hi Simon,
Your OP BL seedling may prove to be a real great one for PM resistance, but I guess it needs to grow out a good full season to see how it performs in Tassie. The climate here in Sydney of course may show a different disease resistance profile, we can only test and see!
FYI, Brindabella Leadinggold gets PM here, I am going to shovel prune both plants, this afternoon.
I would actually love to get about 20-30-50 achenes out of BL from anyone here that has any to share, and get real fast germinations using EE/WEC, and see them grow and perform in my climate for the rest of this growing season, and select one out based on these greater numbers of seedlings…that way there is a better chance of maximising getting a real good 'un which is PM resistant!
(Will pay any fee that is required for this).
email: gvarden at bigpond dot net dot au.
Hi George,
I raised two cuttings via my usual method, receiving them from my usual source, Barry (LOL). This was about 7 years ago and the plants did BEAUTIFULLY for about 3 years or more, totally disease resistant. They are both in NY now, the first one I planted there spring of '08 and the other is in the pot ghetto as of '09 I believe. Both caught black spot on the leaves and canes and there is constant dieback.
I had been aware of this happening about 8 years ago as there were 2 plants at the American Red Cross in Asheville, North Carolina and MichaelG on the Garden Web Rose Forum reported that one had come down with the disease and the other remained healthy. I am hearing more and more of BL getting black spot. I had such high hopes for it. Now I just get the occasional bloom. I will be going for a trip to NY in a few weeks and will check out the plants for hips when I get there but I am doubtful. It seems, once it succumbs, it really loses all vigor.
Jim
Jadae,
Were you referring to BL as trash or what it was crossed with? 
Jim
No, I love Baby Love lol. I just meant that some of its hybrids are trash and some of them are very wonderful.
I grew Baby Love for years – ever since Heirlooms had it. I always thought of it as a little ball of sunshine, lol. I only hated one thing about it – dead heading – but I can say that about any mini type.
Hi Jim P!
Thanks for the cultural information on BL, and also for thinking of me…I also really hope you can get them hips, good luck, that would be really cool!!!
One very internationally successful breeder (not on this forum) recently advised me privately that BL breeds high disease resistance in roughly 10% of the F1…I did not ask whether he was referring to PM or BS or both?!..anyways, based on this knowledge, I am guessing we would at the very least need ten OP seedlings to review, to have any realistic odds of really discovering a great one (probably a lot more than ten in reality, when one factors in unavoidable losses due to the growing out process).
Hi again, Simon!
I am also very excited to try out your promising OP Baby Love (‘Test Tube Baby Love’), thanks for your offer. You sound like a proud dad, roflol.
As you already know, the climate here is fairly disease-pressured for PM and for BS, it will be interesting to see if it can perform well here too (I hope so!!).
Actually, I have just gone to the rose garden, and instead of culling the two BLG plants I have, I realised that they could still be useful, as rootstocks!!
So any time you can spare some small budstick I can bud it immediately, and let you know how that goes.
Correct. That was my implication about its usage, sans any statistics. I strongly recommend not marrying it to something that likes to hyper-elongate its stems, which I am sure will decrease your odds for both health and its strong potential for creating floppy non-mini hybrids. That has been my observation of its general pattern.
Simon, I just realised, on second thoughts budding seedling rose material is potentially a very bad option if done on cuttings(re: disease transmission)!!!
So I’ll be more than happy to accept a rooted cutting from you instead, as you suggested, whenever!
Hi Michael,
I find your observations about avoiding mating BL to roses that like to hyper-enlogate their stems real interesting!
I am thinking Brown Velvet as an example, is that what you mean? Can you suggest other roses in this hyper-elongation “category” to help me build a picture here??
Also, do you have any theories on why/how this “mismatch” in cane elongation tendencies between BL and another hypothetical rose we mate it with, might decrease the odds of good health, of such F1?
:0)
Simon, FYI, I also have grown the Brindabella Gem selection recenlty that you mentioned (F1 out of Baby Love).
Contrary to what one might worry about in its breeding, it totally thrived in the heat here, and it got no disease at all.
I no longer have it (too long and boring a story to explain).
I might actually get another BG plant again, I am thinking about it as I write this!!
I’ll look at TTBL over the next few days to see whether I can get a cutting or graft it onto a multiflora seedling.
Oh that’s grand!
BTW (off topic) it looks like we are going to get some additional Indian R.gigantea, to germinate again!!
George, I am still unsure. I just know what I observed over the years while using it. New Year fits the bill. I am sure that Rosa banksia lutescens and Iceberg would also fit the bill. I am sure Sexy Rexy and Freedom would not. See pic from HMF to see what I mean.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.165711
Here is where Livin Easy passed on the trait I wanted w/ Baby Love easy. Its from Remember Me via Silver Jubilee. Unfortunately, most ppl just take pics of the blooms of Remember Me so this pic is as close as I can find to them stems and how space relativity exists on the architecture.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.10338
What I have observed, too, is pretty much anything from McGredy would not be useful. I’ve often joked, “you can tell it’s McGredy as it’s suitable for pegging!” Forever Amber is precisely that way, too. Many of the British floribundas from the late sixties to the nineties perform that way in our longer, more extreme conditions here. Much like Austin’s roses, they want to climb because they were vigorous in shorter areas so when they get a LOT of sun, heat, etc., they make use of it.
Iceberg may not really be example you want to use because it attempts to sport to its climbing form all the time. A field of canned plants will exhibit everything from dwarf, bushy, thornless plants all the way to the Iceberg version of Spray Cecile Brunner. We see it in landscaping all the time. Some are nearly polyantha like while others are literally climbing and all were produced as bushes.
OK, if it requires ten times the number of desired offspring to find a suitable one for passing on the health, and it requires being careful what you mix with it, what Baby Love derivative would you suggest one begin with?
Black spot has never been an issue before due to climate. Now, I’m IN that climate and seeking suitable things to work into the mix. If I can circumvent the elongation issues (particularly as I’m already working with elongated plants), it should shave a great deal of time and room requirements off the task. Might anyone have suggestions of off spring they think potentially suitable for improved black spot resistance? Thanks! Kim
Hi George,
For me, PM resistance in ‘Baby Love’ appears to be a dominant trait. We get horrible PM in our climate every Spring during the peak Spring blooming period. That is why I dislike it so much. I would estimate well over 10% of BL seedlings have very good PM resistance (more like 25% to 50%), and yes, the F1 and later generation seedlings that are PM resistant pass on the trait reliably.
Regarding BS resistance, I think that the value of using BL has all but vanished due to reports of some races of BS being capable of completely defoliating it. It still may be useful in crosses with other varieties having good BS resistance, but it cannot be used to “clean-up” other more BS prone varieties.
Regarding downy mildew infections, I think that BL unfortunately is more prone than the average rose. This trait is also seen in many of its offspring. That being said, when DM pressure is strong, most roses in my experience succumb. As I have said elsewhere, due to this reason and the fact that we do not get DM every year, it will be very difficult to breed for DM resistance.
For our climate, and similar ones (lots of PM without much BS), I think that BL still has much to offer. It is a real pleasure to see BL derivatives totally free of PM while many commercial varieties are exhibiting leaf and stem distortions.
I refuse to spray for PM or BS, but will on occasion be “coaxed” into spraying for DM.
Jim Sproul
Kim,
Easy Does It is awesome but it flops. Its canes cannot support the weight of the foliage/blooms, LOL. My strongest preference is for Pretty Lady, a close relative to Baby Love. Jalbert of Canada produced a beautiful rose from Livin Easy and Pretty Lady called Royal City Rose. I think Palatine sells it now. From the photos, I can tell that it picked up the Pretty Lady foliage type. If you use PL, use it as pollen. Jalbert somehow got seed from it but it often rejects anything but itself, lol. Peachy Cream is being sold this year. I have no clue if it is triploid or tetraploid but I am guessing it is pollen fertile.
Thank you! Gives me a starting point where to look.
Thanks Jim S, Michael and Kim for your extra inputs.
Yup, that is exactly why I am making such a fuss to get some BL derivatives that show and pass on, PM resistance. I totally loathe PM, to me it is more hiddeous than BS if the leaves stay on all distorted. At least BS sometimes gives interesting leopard-skin style color spotting…I’m definitely not into the X-Mas tree effect of PM…each to their own LOL!!!
Simon,
I have just been advised from some great UK breeders, that’CHEWfragbabe’ [Mountbatten X {Angelina X flamenco X R.bella)}]XBaby Love (SCRivluv) is not known to show PM problems. So your Sydney based friend, and others you mentioned, were spot on in advising you to try this one.
A few months back, I was also considering to buy ‘Fragbabe’, as it stood out like a sore thumb to me as a good Baby Love F1 to try out. Instead the BLG became the one I got, for reasons that don’t matter now!!
Now I’m off to the nursery, again, LOL…they must really love me!!!
Link: www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.62007
Carefree Beauty is supposed to have great horizontal resistance to BS and Baby Love is supposed to have great vertical resistance (so when it succumbs it succumbs bad). I always thought this would be an ideal cross but didn’t someone on here state a few months ago that Carefree Beauty seemed to resist Baby Love pollen when crosses were attempted? Could the poster clarify?
Thanks,
Jim