A while ago I found photos showing Baby Chateau in a public garden in Průhonice, Czech Republic. I just found it listed now at another at Rose Garden Budat
That’s a sweetheart of an idea, Don. It shouldn’t cost a lot and it does seem relevant to the RHA’s purposes.
Recently Kim mentioned ‘Dr. E. M. Mills’. This one I’d been asking around for since about a year ago. Apparently Hans at Biercreek has it. See link below to the recent mention.
Another I’ve been looking for since 1976 is in an undisclosed location. If you know where to find Turkes Rugosa Samling, it should go on the list.
Link: rosehybridizers.org/forum/message.php?topid=31752#34096
I’d love to see a row of about 10 or so plants showing the progression over time of the creation of orange in roses. It’d make for a great photo, lol.
Baby Chateau and Ami Quinard would be wonderful to SEE but look at the photos of Baby. The foliage, what there is of it, is syphilitic. There are very good reasons many of these things have died out or fallen from commerce. I think that foliage is a pretty good reason to suspect.
I think this is a grand idea.
Xerxes is another rose that could be put on this list. It may be extinct but their is a picture coming from Japan saying that it is it.
In case of rare varieties You should use as source the Europarosarium Sangerhausen and the Roseto Botanico di Cavriglia!
Dr.E.M.Mills I’m growing from a source in Sweden but being sure if it’s true we must wait at least this season.
Hopefully Dr. Mills is true. Whether it is or not, though, it is the only possibility we have and shows these types of “rescues” ARE possible. I sincerely thank Paul Zimmerman and Hans at Bierkreek for making it happen! It’s only taken over three years to this point. Kim
I would love to see ‘Baby Chateau’, if only to compare it with the three offspring Tantau raised from it pollinated by R. roxburghii. They are vigorous plants with good foliage - at least as they grow at the Heritage Rose Garden in San Jose. It would be interesting so see how much Roxburghii really contributed.
Don:
This is a very cool idea. Do you have any idea about the number of different cultivars that would be needed for this…100, 200?
Kim, I agree about disease being a problem and my interest would be in seeing them and having the genes to compare with descendants, as Karl says. I’d also like to repeat the roxburghii crosses.
Jeff, for imports into the USA I think we would be wise to limit the cultivars to those for which we have good reason to go through the effort. Keep in mind that there’s a post-entry quarantine period of two years; the burden of finding someone at the other end to help with securing and shipping the plants; and finding someone to do the propagation.
It all sounds like a lot of fun and very interesting. However, when determining how to procede with Dr. Mills, Paul Zimmerman shared this with me…
" but be aware bringing in roses from overseas is now running $500 plus per individual shipment just for postage and brokerage fees."
The last time I imported, in the mid 1980s, postage was nothing. Now, I understand, in order to just GET your roses taken to the USDA office then forwarded, you WILL pay a “broker” roughly $500 per shipment.
Ive said this before but it seems appropriate here. I believe that both Rosa roxburghii normalis and Rosa primula are closely related, and I believe they exhibit the same phenonenom when crossed with modern, especially tetraploid, cultivars. My personal estimate is that they fill in genetics rather than give their full ante, so to speak. The sterile hybrids that I have created with Rosa primula as a parent have created super-replicas of the mother, which includes repeat bloom. It added increased vigor, health and rooting ability, but they are both seed and pollen sterile so far.
I am not sure why a handful of these hybrids worked out well (ike Floradora), but they did. However, they did not seem to pass on as much as we’d want them to. We would have to find some sort of bridge in which to capture the qualities we want so that they are transferable to whatever our whims desire.
Hurst did not give either species any septet traits, and did not even consider Rosa primula whatsoever. However, he wrote papers on them. I cannot access them though =( He talks about the genetics of the odd/rare roses together.
Crosses with Rosa rugosa seem to capture the traits, but that really isnt helpful. The result is beautiful though. Maybe a different, less touchy Cinn. family diploid would give fertile results.
I did a quick search at the USDA for regulations for post-entry quarantine. It brought up over 300 pages of regulations. Sheesh!