An article in today’s New York Times about the New York Botanical Garden’s attempt to grow roses that bloom a lot and don’t need spraying.
The sidebar photo mentions a rose called Polar Express that doesn’t seem to have an HMF or google presence. Anyone heard of it?
I’d never heard of it. At first I thought it might be a confusion for Polareis, but the rose pictured is clearly not a rugosa. I finally got the idea to check the NYBG site, and found that Polar Expressâ„¢ (Kordes) is in the Peggy Rockefeller rose garden list. Maybe it’s one of the Fairy Tale series? Maybe something else has been renamed as Polar Express? The buds look a lot like those on some of the old-fashioned roses.
Hi Peter,
That’s a great article! Roses need positive PR from big botanical gardens that can show that some roses are easy to grow. Thanks for sharing it.
They can definitely use better ones than this Paul Zimmerman article in Fine Gardening. Lack of scent is tremendously more due to “florist-exhibition type, durable, long lasting flowers” than disease resistance. Will Roses Ever Be Fragrant Again?
Peter and Kim, 2 great articles, good reading in each. I have a question, do we collectively know anything about Mr. Kukielski ?
He presented about that garden and the efforts to make it Earth Kind at the Great Rosarians of the World which honored David Austin year before last. He was the one who reported about finding five different strains of black spot in the US and showed the list of cultivars tested and found resistant against which strain.
Thanks Kim
The loss of fragrance in “modern” roses is an old complaint. A Mr. Fish (1889) commented on the Bourbon rose that, “their perfume was rather curious, but they could not be called sweet roses.” Some of the survivors of this group are, of course, noted for their sweet fragrance.
And earlier, Beaton (1855) wrote, “Hybrid Perpetual Roses wanted the true scent for a long while, but now they are getting them more scented, and in time they will be as sweet as the Cabbage Rose.”
Karl
Any time there are changes to anything, those who hate change will complain about something. Then, there are those who complain simply because it gives them purpose. If you select wisely, you can find fragrance in most classes. It’s getting the color, flower shape, health, growth habit, size and zone hardiness WITH fragrance that can be a problem. Too many want flowers which last a week or two in a vase and most fragrant blooms won’t. Most don’t understand how fragrance contributes to aging and the failure of the bloom. That’s the rub and that is why florist and exhibition roses seldom are very fragrant.
I know at times I can be guilty of complaining. I try to look at the bright side but my natural state is not being satisfied with things. In one way it gives me drive to acomplish things but it also means I find it hard to be happy at times.
Another example is when people complain about thorns on roses. I heard a quote I think it was on this forum but it could be elsewhere but it said something like “Just be thankful that your thorn bushes have flowers”.
Years ago (mid '90s), Sam McGredy made a comment on rec.gardens.roses that he preferred roses with a delicate fragrance. His point, as I recall, was that roses used for floral centerpieces should not be strongly scented because the perfume might not suit the meal. I’m willing to accept that as a justification for some roses having little perfume.
Personally, I find the whole perfume debate irrelevant. There should be roses of all types for all purposes and for as long as there has been roses there has been roses without perfume.
A few years back when my Dad was in hospital with bowel cancer I wanted to bring roses to help cheer him up and was told I could not bring flowers that had a heady perfume into the recovery rooms. I love perfumed roses but I’m not going to jump off a bridge or anything if there are roses that aren’t perfumed. My Dad isn’t much of a gardener and certainly isn’t a rosarian but he still (he recovered well and is now 4 years without cancer), enjoys the look of them in the garden and whether they have a perfume or not is of no consequence to him.
Some perfumes go a long way in the WRONG direction as well. On HMF I mentioned a seedling of mine that was ‘Trier’ x ‘MME Joseph Schwartz’ that had a perfume so offensive I nearly kicked the dog when I smelt it… Kim liked that idea and suggested I call it ‘Kick the Dog’ 
Having said this I’m trying to incorporate more fragrance into healthy wich-shrubs. A new seedling that has just popped up here is ‘Nahema’ x ‘Bullseye’. I’m hoping this is a start to making more fragrant landscape shrubs.
I think rose writers need to be more careful in their choice of words… apparently all we need to do is get ‘the’ gene (singular) for disease resistance and combine it with fragrance and Bob’s your Uncle! If it were that easy to do we would have done it hundreds of years ago.
Congratulations on your dad’s recovery Simon! That’s marvelous! Yes, unscented flowers are needed for various reasons. Not only for coursages and center pieces, but also for those who are allergic to everything. I love highly scented blooms of all types. I don’t know about you, but if I spend a hefty price for cut roses, I want them to last more than three days in the vase. Few strongly scented roses last well when cut. That’s great for the bush in the yard so I can have all I can coax from the plant, but if the flowers cost me anything, they’d dang well better last a week on the table!
My best friend has Meniere’s Disease and has always loved to garden. He loves highly scented blooms, too, but he’s also highly allergic to anything in the lily family. Many strong fragrances, natural as well as manufactured (perfumes, colognes, soaps, etc.) can trigger an episode which can last from a few minutes and wipe him out physically, to extreme bouts which can incapacitate him for up to three days. Having to travel a hundred thousand miles annually for work, couping him up on planes with all the hand creams, lotions, colognes, etc. has caused some pretty severe reactions. He can’t have many strongly scented flowers around his garden because even those which he is frequently safe with can suddenly trigger a vertigo attack. Insidious disease.
Then, you have my youngest sister who is allergic to most forms of protein and virtually anything with a scent. I wanted to give her a lilac and she had to beg off. Just being in the yard with one in flower sets her off and she’s miserable. Everything in the house has to be unscented.
Ive shown a lot of roses to people, and most of them HATE those that are heavily scented. Most seem to prefer smoothly moderate + their preferred type of scent.
Personally, I cannot keep blooms inside because I will wake up with red eyes. Im severely allergic to the oils in the air =( This should also be noted for dinner and such, because I know Im not the only one.
Peter Kukielski is wonderful and energetic. I work with him in the Earth-Kind trials. He is from Georgia and moved to NY as the curator of the rose garden 6 or so years ago now. He was able to transform the garden to healthier roses. NYC took on tougher legislation for pesticide use in public spaces and getting an exemption to use whatever it takes to make chemically dependent roses not be an eye sore would not convince an exemption. Working with the Pellets, Conard Pyle, Baileys, etc. he was able to get newer roses into the garden. He continually removes the less productive roses and replaces them with newer ones touted as being healthy. Over time the pest resistance among the roses in the garden increased. The Peggy Rockefeller Rose Garden has become a showcase of sustainability because of it. He truly believes in sustainability and having the legislation in place across the city helped him ward off potential friction from some that may not have otherwise been supportive of such a dramatic transformation. The Pellets routinely send the newer Kordes roses to Peter for feedback on their performance, so there is a wonderful representation of them. Many of the great climbers around the perimeter are healthy, floriferous Kordes climbers.
When I was at GROW East this year it was amazing enjoying time with Peter and everyone in the garden. David Rockefeller (~96 years old) was even out one day in the garden. Attached is a picture of Peter with the garden behind him and another image of the garden.
[attachment 986 IMG_7805612012NewYorkBotanicalGardenPeterKukielskiPeggyRoseGardentwo.jpg]
[attachment 987 IMG_7809612012NewYorkBotanicalGardenPeggyRockerfellerrosegardentwo2.jpg]
FYI
Chris and Gary Pellet run Newflora and represent Kordes roses in the US. They obtain the promising advanced selections from Kordes and they select those that are the best adapted to the US. They develop markets for the roses by partnering with US nurseries to license Kordes roses. Some growers are taking on the hybrid teas, the groundcover shrubs (vigorosa / balcolonia series), the Fairytales (shrub / floribunda-like), climbers (Kordes Maxx), Kolorscapes (compact floriferous shrubs), etc.