Warren, there are minis there. What might you know about any of these three in your area? Ross Roses lists them on their web site and they look promising. I’m sure there must be others and there is always having seed sent so you can try others. Kim
Pretty Polly
Peach Sunblaze
Scarlet Sunblaze
Trewallyn Nursery sells Buccaneer. How can ya go wrong with that?
I don’t think you can go wrong with Buccaneer. I tried for the longest time to get the VI plant of it from Vintage, but it was never propagated. I no longer have room nor need for it, but I think it has much to offer. Around these parts, it’s as reliable, vigorous and rudely healthy as Pink Favorite and Columbus Queen. They’re horses in gardens here, huge, with tremendous flower power, rapidly building into enormous bushes of color and requiring virtually nothing from you. All three fitting Jack Harkness’ catalog description of Pink Favorite, “a boring rose for the nurseryman” because they just perform and require nothing. I don’t know how that can be improved upon! LOL! Kim
Trewallyn also carries Ring of Fire, Tracy Wickham, Born Free, Sun Maid and Fire Princess which all seem possibilities depending upon how they perform there. Kim
I wonder, is it color intensity, or its transitory nature that made the Pernet roses so intriguing?
This year I bought and got blooms on a few (Soliel d’Or, Angele Pernet, Feu Josef Looymans}. But I also had Coronado and Golden Slippers which were by von Abrams, bred about 1950 though introduced a decade later. Both were fantastic in the same sort of way as the others. They are bicolors and the color is changable with time and weather during development.
But for brighness, nothing I’ve seen can beat an open pollinated seedling of Rainbow Knock Out. It has double the intensity of the pink and yellow compared to its parent, so it glows red of the Austrian Copper shade, then gradually loses the yellow to leave pink, with a white center. I have tried repeatedly to capture it on film (actually in digitatio) and might have succeeded the other day. I’ll try to upload a photo.
Soliel d’Or ‘came with’ blackspot; I wonder if it is actually systemic. Worst thing I’ve ever seen, even worse than Austrian Copper by my recollection. Meanwhile RKO right next to it is untouched. So I think we may be able to get the color intensity, and perhaps even the color effects, along with disease resistance.
So why did I buy those pernicious Pernet roses? First, to see what they looked like, which I had never had a chance to do, not being a Californian. Second, to cross them with RKO, or Sunny KO, or Carefree Sunshine to get recombination of disease resistances with maintenance of the color range.
(Actually Carefree Beauty is being used as a mother plant too and I have that x Golden Slippers just harvested. Maybe some of the others will work next year if I’m not traveling through most of the pollinating season.)
Bettina is my favorite along this line with all changing colors and veining on super shinny foliage.
Someone to breed a BS free version?
Link: 'Bettina ®' Rose
I think it was eventually both. Nothing else had ever shown the intensity of pigments, nor the particular pigments demonstrated before. They were novel, even if most were “thirty minute roses” as Nicholas termed them. Many were amazing in the combinations of colors they provided. Autumn appeared sometimes golden, sometimes apricot to peach but up close it was all of those, plus bronze and sunset shades, tempered with mauve shades. All the colors of a sunset rolled into one, incredible flower. Sunset Song gave some of that effect in a more modern, improved plant. Later versions provided more stable colors on improved (most of the time) plants, but none of them had the range and incredible tones of the earlier ones.
Diorama would occasionally demonstrate nearly stippling here, reminding me of a Pointillist painting. Gee Whiz and Incredible frequently resembled that, also. I guess that’s why I’ve loved striped like Fiesta and Anvil Sparks so much. Kim
If I recall, Garden Sun is bred from Cl. Bettina, Circus and Westerland.
You recall the participants correctly, just in the wrong order, but pretty good! It definitely looks Pernetiana, particularly in the photo on the HMF link below. Notice the rosy, almost hinting at the beginning of mauve on the outer petals. Kim
My recall was from the patent I submitted to Lyn, lol. HMF wasnt loading for me. Isnt that sad? Im going to be 70 and telling random grandkids what was in patents. My neurons are going to waste haha.
Lafter is very healthy here and its seedlings can have perentiana coloring.
Our lafter x elina has large double blooms with buff centers and lavendar outer petals. Fall blooms are gorgeous.
Dave,
I was thinking that Lafter might be a source for these colors. My Lafter is getting a little bigger that I expected. She’s some 7 feet wide and 5 feet tall. I only planted her last November. How big is she when it is fully-grown?
I’ve also been losing ripening hips on her. I thought I had a little four-legged creatures stealing them, but I found one hip on the ground today. Do you (or anyone else using Lafter) find that she drops her hips before they are ripe?
Andy
Andy,
I visited a rose friend VA who had given me many cuttings to root from his hundeds of roses. He had two huge beds of HTs in the front yard. After a summer hurricane and some freaky weather the following spring, when I visited him that fall, only 2 HTs were left, one in each bed. I asked him the names of the 2 survivors which looked like two huge shrubs. He said Carefree Beauty and Lafter.
I am 5’8" and Lafter stood well over my head. It was about 7’ I would guess. It was about 5 ft. wide but gave an impression of being more upright and narrower in growth than Carefree Beauty. Both had healthy abundant rich green foliage. My Lafter in Long Island, NY, planted 3 years ago is now topping our 6’ stockade fence. Both locations are Zone 7a.
I had to leave the other one in a pot in VA when I moved this summer. Both are healthy as hell in two very blackspot prone locations.
I think it was on Garden Web that someone posted about 4 or 5 years back that she got a lot of nice seedlings from Laftr in many different colors (has a lot of pink and yellow in its background). Did notice this fall that the blooms are more fully petalled with the cooler weather and more deeply colored though the salmon pink upper surface fades to pink and the yellow undersurface fades to white.
Nice fragrance; just wish it were smoother caned though not heavily armed. Hadn’t noticed about the dropping of unripe hips.
Jim
Lafter seems to be a rather unwilling seed parent, which may corroborate your hip drop observation.
Yes Lafter drops its hips on its own. I was actually harvesting hips yesterday and saw a bunch of its light orange hips on the ground. I got about 10 crosses to take this year so I’m looking forward to seeing how they germinate. I only did one hip crosses this year as I am still testing the waters. Unfortunately the tags on 5 of them are missing (just the strings were left) so I propably won’t know what the crosses are exactly until they bloom. Thankfully I wrote down all the crosses I made so that limits the possibilities. I did harvest another 30 or so OP hips which, if they germinate, can give me a good look as to what she has in her.
Andre
How many seeds in each lafter hip?
Our lafterxelina seedling came from a hip with two seeds init
Every single hip (like 30 lol) from Flower Carpet Amber, despite being ripe and full, was e m p t y. So much for a Pernetiana + Wichurana shrublet combo.
Same thing happened to me Michael with Lorraine Lee, these huge hips formed but the only thing inside was fibres .
Warren
Dave,
I have not opened this year’s hips yet but will let you know when I do. I did keep track last year and what I have written down is that 15 hips were collected with a total of 89 achenes (average of about 7). I thought it might have been a little high but then I noticed that Orange Ruffels (planted right next to it) had 13 hips collected with 92 achenes. It seems that a lot of the OP hips of my Brownell roses give a lot (biggest 3 were Pink Pillar 13 hips with 151,Senior Prom 11 with 241, Charlotte Brownell 18 with 250). I say a lot because the achenes are quite large and I would have expected about 2-4 as per hip versus an average of 7 (of course this is based upon my whole 1 year of collecting OP hips). lol
I couldn’t tell you the germination rate as I never got around to sowing any of them except Senior Prom which produced a respectable amount but many died early on because I was too lazy to keep them watered (I tell myself I was testing for drought resistance). BTW I think I have kept somewhere of around 8 of them just because they are really healthy. All the same dark pink ranging anywhere from single to fully double (the single is quite nice).
Andre,
The hip that fell off last week had six seeds in it. Since there was nothing to lose, I tried to extract the embryos within. They were all shriveled up and black. This morning the last remaining hip fell off. I opened it up and there are seven seeds in it (Lafter x Veterans’ Honor). I’m just going to plant these normally.
Jim,
That’s a big rose. I guess I’m going to have to move her somewhere else. I wasn’t expecting that size plant. The one at Roger Williams Park is a lot smaller.
Andy