Americans, the disposable rose, and the future garden...

Enoying the ‘toxic’ Ecuadoran cut-flower roses on our table and seeing the faded mini’s at a big box store going into the dumpster a couple days past Valentine’s Day, I got to thinking about the rose industry today and wondering where it is headed.

While the industry is suffering, Americans today have embraced some roses, namely the KO series, but evidently, they don’t really see these as proper “roses” per se – rather colorful landscape fillers for every strip mall and front yard in America. One still finds the body-bagged bare roots at stores, but limited to legendary cultivars of 40-60 years ago. Most of them, likely, are virused, fussy, chemical dependant things that do little to pursuade Americans that the rose is a plant of merit. (I for one contend that the one-rose-fits-all-of-America notion has exacerbated frustrations with the plant as a garden plant.)

I suspect that most of us here are pursuing landscape roses. Many seem to have a disdain of the old high-centered tea due to its reputation for persnickitiness and ugly architecture. But that is what Americans think of as a rose, generally. But not as a garden rose anymore, apparently.

Recently, folks have shown they want low maintenance. Folks appear to have less time for the garden/yard, and the proliferation of McMansions spanning from property line to property line in so many cities seems to validate the trend away from the outdoors.

Yet, there appears to be a revived interest in “homesteading,” going organic, sourcing locally, and I’m seeing more and more urban chicken farmers and the like. Bookshelves seem to have more offerings on “homesteading on a half acre or less” for instance… (Mind you, I did recently move to Austin, and that could account for my perceived change in directions!) Is this the future direction, as a backlash to the status quo?

Will a more enlightened generation look to locally-sourced, chemical-free cut-flowers, or will price always prevail? Will folks return to tending their own gardens and enjoying working outdoors, growing their own high-centered, environmentlaly-friendly cut roses?

What do you think the future demand will hold, and what are your arguments? Or does it matter? (How many of us are realistic enough to only breed for ourselves with no concern for a mass market?)

An open discussion…

From 45+ years of “gardening” and 30+ growing roses; from studying marketing and observing behavior, particularly regarding purchases and being continually frustrated by the dishonest and lack of self understanding regarding such selections and behavior; from 10 years actively employed in the “nursery trade”; many years of volunteer efforts for Friends of the Huntington Plant Sales, Huntington Rose Festivals and Old Rose Symposiums, rose sales for The Homestead Acre, rose society auctions for various societies, I am convinced that until there are sufficient resources to permit the average person to BE selective, price is the bottom line. No matter what the words are which come from the mouth, nor what the beliefs are in heart and head, until a person has the MONEY, time, energy and other required resources, most will base the decision and selection primarily on price. No matter what you believe, what you want to believe, how you want to interact with your environment, until you have the necessary dollars to permit it, what you buy, where you buy it and how you process it will be determined by dollars.

Many people who have the necessary disposable income must be convinced the $10 plant is at least five time superior to the $2 plant, or they’ll happily pay the $2, fully expecting it to perform as they expect the $10 to. You can encounter it in nurseries and other stores, as well as on line and in person, daily. With all the talk of wanting “virus free”, well grown, true to name, properly handled plants, for a nursery which supplies just that to ask $17, PLUS tax and shipping, for a wimpy, small, own root band of the “same” rose just encountered either bud and bloom in a gallon can or dried out body bag at Home Depot for $3 is “gouging”, “outrageous”, “absurd”.

I have continually dealt with people who would come from across the street, where a six and a half decade old, family owned and run chain of REAL garden centers does business, railing about how “over priced” their $17, five gallon bud and bloom patented, first year introductions were, compared to our “landscape grade”, out of patent, $11 bud and bloom plants designed to appeal to the wholesale buyer/“gardener” trade. Quickly followed by surprised complaints that WE didn’t offer the first year intro, patented varieties. People just have NO clue. That company propagated their own stock in 90% of the cases, focusing on plants which grew easily in the areas they served and were “no brainers” to propagate. Across the street, everything was purchased, very well grown, usually mature, nearly “florist quality” and priced accordingly. Yet, few could/would understand why their Salvia greggii cost $7.95-$9.95 (depending upon source) while ours cost only $3.95 for the same variety, same gallon size. Yup, while across the street sold some of theirs, we sold out each year.

People would read the Armstrong Garden Center ads for $15 bare root roses with their “one year, free replacement guaranty”, then come to the department store garden shop to buy the Armstrong brand, same variety $5 body bag non patent and $7 body bag patented roses, fully expecting them to also be guaranteed for one year. I can’t tell you how many of those conversations I had over the years. No thought is given that these products are “produce” instead of hard goods pumped out of machines on conveyor belts. Need more? Fire up the production line, they’ll be there tomorrow! “It’s March, where are the tomatoes?” Never mind it’s been the coldest, wettest spring on record and they aren’t even germinating yet. The calender says “March” and that is when the tomatoes are on the racks, complete with fruit. “I want to return a dead plant. All the flowers died.” The plant is completely fine, it dropped its color. No one told them it had to be PLANTED and WATERED, that it required SUN.

Part of it is due to people being so far “from the land” for so long. “Farming”, growing plants for pleasure and home use aren’t taught in schools, and fewer and fewer are learning it at home. It gets worse the more urban you are and the more generations you get away from one which actually grew anything themselves. From observation, higher levels of disposable resources exacerbates the problems. The more money there is to throw at the problem, the more unrealistic the expectations. Even when explanations are requested and given as to why one rose is superior to another for the climate, position and use, all too frequently it is the “pretty face” that wins. The better variety, the higher quality plant, even at the same price gets rejected in favor of the one with the pretty flower on it. People are weird.

As incomes shrink; time becomes more precious due to extended work hours and multiple jobs; disposable income dwindles due to ever increasing prices for necessary goods, services, housing, etc., it gets worse. Add that in urban areas land is so outrageously, unrealistically expensive, resulting in the “mc mansions” on postage stamp lots where there honestly is no room for anything to grow well. In seismically active areas, compaction rates up to 98 percentile makes it virtually impossible for much of anything to flourish. “Drainage” becomes amount of run-off instead of percolation through the soil. Ever try to sink a shovel into 98 percentile compacted soil? There isn’t really any naturally occurring “top soil” in these parts to speak of. Scrape off anything that even resembles it, excavate to the level necessary to find sufficiently “solid” footing, then refill with the excavated sub soil, compacting it to the level of bed rock as it’s replaced, then try planting a tree on it, much less sod. Turf is grown hydroponically on three inches of “compost” which came from ground wood byproducts, and must be watered daily much of the year. Planting holes become buckets where run off seeps, collects and rots out plantings. The city replaced one homeowner’s street tree five times in two years due to each one rotting because of standing water, on level ground.

The “favorites” referred to earlier have the look and scent demanded, but require more assistance to grow well than an Escallonia or Privet. They require “proper pruning”, fertilizing, dead heading, spraying and other chemical assistance. Retailers must tack on the “add-on sales” of the associated chemicals to pay the bills. The same chemicals we’re trying to eliminate and breed past. Increasingly more homeowners resist them (rightfully!) due to expense, time, energy, toxicity. Aging people experience increasingly greater allergies to all of them (myself, included!), developing greater awareness of how damaging these chemicals are and can be. Our own mortality becomes increasingly real.

Rose creators are faced with a dying market. Too little space; too little time; too little money; too little energy; inappropriate planting places and increasingly more “pots” on decks, stoops, balconies; when financially achievable, “organic” solutions to growing the desired plants; elimination of chemical assistance; demand for florist HT flowered, no care, bullet proof plants which look good all the time. Breed for ourselves? Probably the only true “success”.

I realize my views and experiences are terribly skewed due to being in upscale, densely populated “urban areas” outside a major city and that they are very likely less “saturated” in more rural areas and smaller cities. I offer that as the smaller cities expand as population increases and resources shrink even further, it’s very likely to become more of everyone’s “norm”.

I’ve long thought to succeed in breeding new roses, and other landscape plants as well, more compact, smaller plants are required. They can’t be had at the expense of strength and ‘vigor’, but must not result in the 6’ and larger bushes many of today’s HT and floribunda plants achieve in decent climates now. New homes in many areas only have ten foot deep rear yards, no matter how upscale or expensive the neighborhood. Many have little more than 18" deep “planters” against house or property walls, in compacted sub soils where plants growing to many feet in all directions just can’t be accommodated. They CAN be pruned, but they won’t flourish and fewer will remain healthy nor flower with any continuity. “Miniatures” are often resorted to, but aren’t sufficiently pleasing because people still want the larger HT flower, lots of them, in an endless succession and in a variety of colors.

We need vigorous plants which remain no more than two feet in all directions, with three inch or larger, double, relatively formally shaped, cuttable, fragrant blooms which can grow in half day sun in most climates. They shouldn’t require more than occasional fertilizing with an all purpose type which is likely to be thrown about by the “mow/blow/goer” a couple of times a year when they hit everything. Hopefully, they will be self cleaning, relatively sterile to prevent the need for dead heading, have detectable fragrance and be available in several colors.

Ideally, they should accomplish all of this own root and also be suitable for culture in appropriate types and sizes of pots. Something as ‘no brainer’ as Iceberg is in this climate would be perfect.

I know, plant silk plants, but those are the directions I have seen here to be able to sell to the largest growing segment I see in these parts.

You have certainly said a mouthful, and even then hardly touched the surface of the problem-but if I answer, and contribute my two cents worth, I’ll get get all political, write a book length answer, so I’ll just leave it there and acknowledge that it’s a problem alright!

Ouch! But I know you’re correct, Kim. People get what they ask for and are willing to pay for and reserve the right to complain about it to boot! I’ve been hearing a lot recently about roses being bought as annuals. That makes me crazy! Those little holiday grocery store minis are a perfect example. Sadly we are a throw away society for the most part. Buy it and if you don’t like it or it doesn’t do well toss it out and buy another. There’s always more at the store. And boy do the stores love it! I don’t see that there’s much to do about it other than to keep plugging away like we do one person at a time trying to get the word out there that roses aren’t Prima Donas and the right rose for the right place is the key. I push the envelope all the time here but I go into it knowing full well that it’s a 50/50 toss up whether the rose will live or die. But I never, EVER suggest that to anyone else when I’m talking to people. I always try to find out more about what they want and where they intend to put a rose before I make any suggestions at all and then try to find something that is appropriate to their individual needs. It’s the best any of us can do.

Philip, I am very partial to those old high centered HTs from the 40s to 70s that my Grandmother and Mom grew and have tried to collect some of them for my garden. Of course, for the most part they’re not the most resistant bunch but they are beautiful and worth the effort in my opinion.

You know what really bugs me? I hear all this crap about how much work roses are and how finicky they are and then the same person will turn around and tell my how much money and time they’ve spent on their LAWNS!!! Arrrrgh!

That disposable attitude is helping destroy the horticultural industry, too. Big Box stores give either a year or life time warranty on plants. Independent garden centers are dropping like flies, as are the rose nurseries. Growers increasingly have to sell to the big box stores as there are fewer and fewer left other than them. The growers are pressured to sell their wares for virtually nothing, while the stores don’t pay for the plants until they go through the cash registers. It’s called SCAN. The plant may sit for months before it dies or is sold. Unless it sells, it isn’t paid for. For any which are paid for prior to sale, all fatalities are deducted from any payments. I’ve spoken with quite a few growers who have said Home Depot and Lowe’s nearly put them under with late payments, SCAN, charge backs, and squeezing every cent out of an invoice price, but they were their last resort. Then, they get hit for “dead plant warranties”, further reducing their sales.

Ralph bitterly complained about the disposable roses. He hated how Meilland, Kordes and Poulsen were selling interchangeable roses under single names and how they were thrown away once out of flower. He felt a mini should have the same respect, the same “dignity” as an HT, floribunda or any other. He hated how it “cheapened” them.

It IS ironic how an expensive lawn is so frequently seen as a merit badge when complaining to friends, yet money spent on rose care is seen as frivolous to those same people.

Things may come back to the soil one day. But it will be years and years down the road. I do not see it happening until after our aditiction to cheap oil ruins the planet and forces to take a new direction because it simply runs out.

The modern day organic movement began in the late sixties and some say was started even before that. Yet it did not make much of an impact on anybody until recently. While I have never been totaly organic the concept of spraying everything needed to change. Last year I sprayed once and this was because I do not like wasp near my front door. I have heard some farmers lamenate the lost of DDT. What would today generation do if they lost seven or malthion which in many way are equally bad as DDT.

It takes generations for things to change. It is a little hard to predict where things will go. We can only infere by the limited everdience we have at hand. I wonder when things do finially change will future generations see a misguided time or will they want the past to come back to life seeing dreams of rome in all her splendor; all the while ingnoring the slums in her mist.

Todays world would be better in so many ways if people had some connection to the soil.

It funny to me how the majority of people want their lawns to look like it lives in Kentucky. It is such a watse of fertilizer, water and land resources.

Their little slice of Connecticut here in the south west desert. Makes perfect sense to me!

I do understand and agree with you, Kim. It’s the way most things are heading. We’ll all be left with only one or two product choices for anything soon and only one or two places to buy those two products. Scary!

You’re right, Adam, it does take generations to see any significant changes in cultural attitudes or practices. Probably none of us will live to see any real change. And I do agree that we look at the past through rose colored glasses. But I try very hard not to judge the past using today’s standards. It is unfair. You can not expect people to have behaved in the same manner we do when they did not have the benefit of our knowledge, Knowledge, by the way, garnered from their experience!

My personal belief about lawns is that as long as it’s some kind of green vegetation, survives on what ever food and water Mother Nature provides and his nibbs keeps it mowed to an even height once in a while that’s good enough!

This isn’t a well thought-out addition to the thread, just a quick response to Kim’s diatribe.

Hearing your stories makes me feel very lucky to be a relatively high-end retailer in a rural area. People from the metro area of Fargo have to drive 80 miles to get here, so when they arrive they’re less likely to quibble about price. Also, the recession has been cushioned here by farm subsidies and maybe the ND oil boom. We attract people who are passionate about gardening. We sell bare root roses for $18.50. Many of our customers live in the country and have room to expand their gardens.

But yeah, a smaller, care-free plant with emotional high-centered blossoms is what’s needed.

This is all rather depressing to read. We need to get our kids started gardening. I could bring a flat of blooming seedlings in and give a talk to some sixth graders, maybe? Plant a few seeds of the passion for gardening.

“Focus,” Bill Radler said to me. What should I focus on? I just ordered a bunch of R. laevigata and R. xanthina seeds so that I can try to create a tetraploids and breed with them. That’s really far away from any sort of commercial success. Yet I dream of commercial success as a way of justifying the expenses that I’m incurring in this pursuit. I guess I’ll do both: I’ll dabble with species and far-out crosses as much as I want, while also making crosses of the roses that are currently the best landscape choices around here. A pretty darn good rose for this area, even if it’s not bound for national success or royalties, will still benefit my business. Cold hardy, repeat blooming, disease resistant, not too big, nice shrubby shape…those qualities trump blossom characteristics for now. Even if there’s not a national market, such a rose will benefit my customers around here.

OK, sorry for rambling on off topic…not feeling too much focus right now.

So much has already been written here on this topic, don’t know if I can add much except some agreement on several items.

I agree with Kim that so many people now are so many generations removed from the farm that they have no clue where things come from. I realized that about 20 odd years ago when I tasked my teenage daughter with beating the whipping cream for a dessert. I told her that she should be careful not to beat it into butter, then the quizzical look on her face and my realization that she didn’t actually know where butter came from! I determined then that I would do a better job of instruction about where things actually come from and not just for my kids but for my grandkids also. All have had demonstrations on polinating roses and daylilies, collecting seed and planting and growing from seed, taking cuttings and transplanting. Though they may not all enjoy these things, I have passed on knowledge and at least 1 of the 4 grandkids seems to share my love for things horticultural.

As for roses present and future my philosophy is more of a regional approach. Whenever I hear someone say, “I can’t grow roses.” My response is always “You aren’t growing the right one”. I wonder if one day we may see the rose industry come full circle. Many of the local and regional operations have been driven out of business, by a few of the larger national operations. Now the big boys are dropping like flies and gobbling each other up. I wonder if someday, if the economy ever turns around and folks have a bit more disposable income if the small regional nurseries with roses that do well locally will begin popping up again. We can always hope.

The people are there. One major issue I have is classism. If there is to be continuance, societies need to reach out to where Gen X and Gen Y are. However, generational values are fairly obvious in American culture. My friend and I teach our peers about various subjects regarding plants, but that is not much of an impact. If I didnt have Fibromyalgia, I probably could do more.

The other major idea is that the lack of connectivity brings us to connectivity @ the cash register, which is not specifically healthy, but it is the realism our society is hallmarked with.

For me personally, I breed a diverse range of roses. However, I do tend to prefer 3 classes: “shrublet”, floribunda, and pillar-types. They optimize space, have personality, and can be good for cutting. Yet, I still work with roses as diverse as species to something like Estelle. I have never seen a reason to give myself limits on ideas since it is my own personal free time and expenses.

I believe they’re going to have to, Joan. I doubt there is going to be sufficient “national sales” to support many larger growers, unless they are so lean and efficient they can squeeze out a living on the quantities sold. I doubt there is going to be a very wide variety of cultivars which do sufficiently well across all fungal populations and climate issues to offer enough variety to keep a large concern profitable.

There is always going to be demand for “something different”, and something “pretty”. That’s where smaller, more regional, “mom and pop” businesses can carve out their small piece of the market. Breeding and selecting roses which stand up to the problems of your zone/region/black spot population will enable you to position yourself to supply types which shouldn’t require inordinate amounts of chemical assistance and which should acceptably handle extreme heat, intense sun, “perma fog” or whatever the issues which prevail in your climate.

I doubt a “national concern” can accomplish that successfully. The “one size fits most” hasn’t worked that well in many product types. Those as location specific as a rose plant make it even more difficult.

Thank you for exposing your grand children to your gardening interests. It frightens me to see how many people don’t know how to bake bread, preserve produce, even COOK fresh produce; knit, sew, embroider, or any of the “craft arts”. It’s scary to see how many can’t even sew on a button! Granted, our prosperity has long provided us the luxury of not needing to know, but that’s just too “helpless” for my comfort.

I don’t think I’m frightened about the future. Realistically and historically gardening is the purview of the senior population and always has been. Think about your own past. I’ll bet most of you didn’t really get serious about gardening until you were older or your kids were out of the nest. Kids, teens and young adults are busy growing, learning, finding careers, starting families and raising kids. They don’t have the time or money to indulge in gardening. Oh they may buy those KOs to landscape that new 4 bedroom house with but they don’t really garden. As you get older you’re more settled, the kids are more independent and you have the time and the spare cash to look for something else to do. That’s when most people really begin to garden. That’s not to say that there aren’t some exceptions to that but for the most part it’s true.

And the thing that does lead people to pick up gardening later on is if they were exposed to it as children. They remember planting seeds with Grandma and seeing something pretty or tasty grow with fond memories and they decide to do it too with their Grandkids. And then they’re drawn back into the garden and the cycle repeats it’s self. My Grandmother lived in Detroit, as urban as it gets, and grew roses in the back yard and African violets on the window sill in the house. One Grandfather had delicious raspberries the other had an orchard of different fruit trees and grape vines, both in small city back yards. Mom had a beautiful rose garden and dozens of bulbs and perennials in a suburban subdivision. I HATED it when she’d make me weed when I was little and forget about it when I got to be a teenager. The garden was the last place I wanted to spend time. Now, as I type this, I’m chomping at the bit to get out there and dig in the dirt even though it’s still February and at least 6 weeks away from when I’ll actually be able to get out there and work the soil, lol!

Not to worry, gardening will always be with us in some form or other. People do really feel a connection to the soil even when they don’t know it.

Who said roses are short lived, go and have a look at the Hildesheim rose on HMF, it is 1,000 yrs old.

Sorry, I think the average gardener may start in their mid years or with their first house but I think many of us on here started at an early age.,

I got hooked when I was about 4 and bent down to make earth walls around the newly planted tomatoes so when they were watered it would soak in around the plant… Had my own little garden while in grade school and in high school, would walk outside to look at my flowers before walking up the hill to school. But then, I guess I have always been in the minority. (ROFLOL)

Jim

As you know I am new here and from Oz. My comments here about this are after reading this thread and the one’s listed below

RHA members with roses …

Releasing Roses …

Do you find Off …

Aoe …

RHA Test Garden

Society in general has become a “throw” away society, not all though. We want it yesterday as today is out of date. I think we have become a race of “wants” people. If someone has it I want it to. The idea of “disposable” roses is again IMO one of the “wants”, we seem not ot cherrish material things any longer, I could be wrong. I give an example here, cars in Australia are becoming a statice symbol, every other colour is "prestige silver’ and marketed that way. Whether you are rich or poor "silver’ seems to place you “above” or is that only in your own mind.

We have become driven by “marketing” someone is making a lot of money, place it in our faces and we buy it. The speed we work at or expected to work at takes a toll on the family unit. I think what is called the technology revolution/industrial revolution has a lot to do with it.

In order of things,

“disposeable roses” = whats in vogue, change it tommorow

“RHA members” = thats why we/you place them there, IMO

“releasing roses” = should be granted with all details and any theft of should be prosecuted. Time frame of posting code/picture needs to be thought of a bit.

“Do you find” = If I breed a rose and someone breeds from it, they have extended the lineage that I have extended, the answer to this NO I would be honoured if someone had chosen some of my work. Who was the first hybridizer, would he/she be offended or honoured. Without thier cosses alot of breeders/ breeding would not have come to fuishon

“AOE and RHA” co-exhist, with 2 test areas one spray/one no spray, some people spray/have to spray, others do not for thier reasons.

Enough said, I think a lot of these threads could have been place into this one, as I think they are linked in someway.

These are my thoughts only, if I have stepted on anyone’s toes I am sorry. Best I can do on trying to say my point of view.

David,

I would have to agree with pretty much of the above in your post. Had to laugh, was thinking about 3 or so weeks ago that the forum was going through the doldrums with few posts and fewer responses. Blamed it on the winter doldrums. Suddenly, like a chain reaction, all these new posts have started and the creative juices are flowing. Many, many fine and valid points have been made and agree with you that the threads all intertwine and at some point are variations but they all have been very interesting and have led to much reflection, at least for me.

Actually this could be a good time for the smaller hybridizers and nurseries. You can create varieties and sell varieties that do well IN YOUR PARTICULAR area. Someone made the comment, (Henry?) years ago that the AARS winner performed at a reasonably high level in many areas and was therefore chosen ( I know, there were other factors such as if a pink one was chosen last year, we better not have a pink winner this year, etc.) . But the poster pointed out, in the testing, a particular rose might have performed at the 99% level in an area but very badly in others so therefore was not in the running. Here is where I think small breeders and sellers can develop sales by breeding and selling for your area. This will bring in customers and word will spread, especially when someone sees it blooming in a friends garden (keeping up with the Joneses is alive and well- an American expression). So I think hybridizers should think more locallly. If it is good over a wide range, time will take care of that. Also, one doesn’t have to sell to a rose nursery, if there is a general nursery in the area and you have a good product, I am sure they would be happy to sell your roses.

As to the spray/no spray, I am reminded of a talk that the Kordes firm gave at a meeting here in the US. The speaker said the first year they went no spray their fields were defoliated by the summer and all one saw were bare canes. Ten years later and breeding for healthy bushes, in the summer their fields are well foliaged. The present healthy shrubs with single blooms and small double flowers are still early stages. I think in time the hybridizers can get the double high centers on good plants or at least improve on the flower’s visual beauty. Didn’t Ralph Moore say to first make the plant and the flower creation follows much more easily. As a personal comment, I was raised on the Jackson and Perkins catalog from grade school on; that was all I knew. I knew little about OGRs when the first Austin creations were being sold in the US. I was so use to the high spiraled bud of the HT that I thought the Austins were ugly! Now I love those full figured voluptuous blooms whether they are OGRs or moderns so there is room for all and the public has to be educated.

Jim

Good morning Jim, there can be a couple of issues with an individual selling their roses to a local nursery. Depending upon your local and state laws, you may be required to have a nursery license and submit to regular inspections, which are not only intrusive and time consuming, but can be quite costly. California requires labeling on nursery stock containing basic levels of identification and care, though it’s sporadically enforced and ironically requires it more for a .99 quart annual than for a $20 bud and bloom, five gallon rose.

I guess if you wanted to go into production in order to supply sufficient quantities to keep them supplied, presuming a willing, knowledgeable outlet and hungry market, it may prove a little profitable eventually, but nothing like that seems possible in my large, suburban area.

Public education is sorely needed, but that is intensely expensive and labor intensive. Ralph attempted it in varying levels of intensity and success. You will need to be both a dedicated, motivated educator as well as proficient marketer, two talents which seem, unfortunately, mutually exclusive in many instances.

For us in the PNW, we are still in the months of darkness. Eden is around the corner, though, and with that usually comes more posts. My daydreaming about crosses usually does not spark until about March or so. I used to plan things out, but that is beyond pointless in a climate that cannot be predicted. So… posts from me are usually less.

Kim, federal law requires appropriate labeling. However, “Rosa hybrid” can be sufficient as far as the USDA is concerned.

My degree is in Hort, but my almost completed MS is in Int. Marketing. However, I still say, “Not it!,” lol. I definitely lack the patience for education.