Has anybody ever observed OP hips on The Alchemist. I examined all the photos of it in the HelpMeFind database and in a couple of them I do see little clusters of what look like viable stigmas, but in no photo could I detect any pollen anthers. Mine is new and should bloom for the first time this year and I was hoping it might prove fertile. I even planted it and have intertwined the canes with those of Golden Threshold, the new yellow gigantea climber to increase the chance of something interesting happening if OP hips ever form, but would like to pollinate a few blooms anyway. I think it would be interesting to cross with Crepuscule if has any fertility at all. Fragrance and beautiful blending of colors would be my goal with that one if I could pull it off. I figure if Ralph Moore could find a tiny bit of pollen on Crested Moss, maybe diligent searching might turn up some pollen on The Alchemist to use on something of known hip fertility.

Hi Bob,

I have an Alchemist in front of my house. Unfortunately, I have trouble getting it to overwinter well enough to bloom well. One year when it did bloom well I pollinated a few flowers of it each by two different males and set nice hips set and produced many germinated seedlings. One male is Frontenac and another a peach colored hardy seedling. Below are the numbers. I think I have a few seedlings left by Frontenac that are one time bloomers. I didn’t find any anthers on my Alchemist either. Good thing is is a good female. I suspect you would get better seed set crossing tetraploids onto it.

23 germinated Alchymist Frontenac 52seeds

21 germinated Alchymist Peach 42seeds



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OK, knowing that you got seed from it, this opens all kinds of possibilities. I have yet to see a picture of The Alchemist that did not show utterly ravishing looking blooms, so I just wondered why there were no progeny listed in the HMF database for it. I think I will try the mini Sachet with it too for fragrance!

Tragically Blackspot prone in my climate, unfortunately. I’d never use it for that reason alone.


Yup. That is why Ive never grown it. Ive seen it multiple times, and always very, very defoliated.

How is Golden Glow in that area for BS?

Ive yet to see it! But I did try Ilse Krohn Superior, its kid, and it was highly mildew prone. I was surprised since this isnt mildew territory. However, this does make me question why Kordes crossed it with kordesii???

Robert, ‘Golden Glow’ has mediocre Blackspot resistance in my garden. It usually loses half its leaves by mid-June, but it recovers when the weather dries out.


Thanks Paul. I guess yellow is problematic period but nice to know progress is being made. Sounds like we need to focus on newer more disease resistant types.

I only grow ‘Goldbusch’ which sounds like a similar cross to ‘Alchemist’. Any information regarding this one?

I know a lot of ppl in the UK use Goldbusch in breeding. It seems decent enough, I guess. It is probably one of the relative better choices from that era.

I’ve had Ilse Krohn sup. in my garden for many years. It’s always been clean in every respect. It may well be the same in Germany.

Bringing up the past a bit here… I’m assuming ‘Golden Glow’ is a tetraploid right??? The other parent to ‘Alchemist’ is listed as R. rubiginosa which is a pentaploid… does anyone know the ploidy of ‘Alchemist’? I’m interested in playing with rubiginosa (finally got a cutting to strike) but am confused about how a pentaploid behaves?

If I remember correctly, ‘Golden Glow’ is triploid.

If you want an easy golden seed parent out of rubiginosa, use ‘Goldbusch’.

Only a percentage of seedlings have juvenile remontancy but they are easy to select for. I finally gave mine away because I got too much out of it to carry forward.


I couldn’t help but notice that Moore used Golden Glow as a seed parent regularly.

Gold Coin and Golden Angel are two that come to mind immediately, but there are many others.

If you do an archive search for Golden Glow you’ll find a great deal of info already. This topic pops up regularly.

Alchemist has a nast BS issue in my area. I really do think other avenues for R. rubiginosa are superior. Goldbusch x Westerland would be interesting, if created, to use.

I have pretty much given up on Golden Glow for breeding. I found juvenile remontancy was about 20% at best, and I never got a seedling that had anything but pastel coloring. The few that made it into the test garden Blacspotted very badly and all were discarded. I am trying one last cross this year with a new parent, and if the results are poor, then Golden Glow is permanently off my studs list.

Have any of you worked with Prairie Sunrise? I am using it for the first time this year and have found that it’s pollen will work on most anything.

Paul I used Prairie Sunrise for the first time this year. It is still a young plant. I put some pollen on Honeysweet and have several hips. I also used Honeysweet pollen on Prairie Sunrise and have a couple of hips so it is seed fertile also but don;t know about germination yet.


I’ve used Prairie Sunrise for three years now, for both pollen and seed. It will set large hips full of seeds in both directions with just about anything. Germination has been disappointingly low, also in both directions, and most of the seedlings lack vigor. At this point in time I have one seedling each from past years of Prairie Sunrise X Deuil de Dr. Reynaud, Prairie Sunrise X Scarlet Moss, and Deuil de Dr. Reynaud X Prairie Sunrise. To illustrate the wide range of pollens it will accept, this year I tried two crosses as seed parent, Prairie Sunrise X R. arkansana and Prairie Sunrise X (rugosa seedling X palustris seedling). Every pollination has resulted in a hip. My plant will normally stop blooming for a long period of time when used as a seed parent. It will bloom again quickly if blooms are deadheaded. I’m on the Mississippi coast, FWIW.


I’m not interested in using ‘Alchemist’ at all because of teh BS issues… but am interested in using rubigonosa (the species) with other healthier plants… Goldbusch is not available here (that I’m aware off) so I’m thinking of playing with other roses wit it… so I was wondering how a pentaploid behaves in terms of gamete formation and what to expect from it if put with something like a tetraploid or a diploid (for my curiosity rather than anything practical).