Advice on what to cross with R. glauca?

In another thread I expressed my desire to obtain seedlings from a line of R. glauca that would retain R. glauca’s foliage color. In addition to that trait, I wanted to retain hardiness, disease resistance and add repeat bloom in 2nd and/or 3rd generations. I would like to obtain

Rob,

I think using one of the cultivars like

Thank you for the advice Paul. Great information there! I really like Hansa and Magnifica would like to use them with glauca. I’m not familiar with the ‘Pavement’ series but will research those. Thanks for the tip. I’ve grown Therese Bugnet before and it was very healthy for me and had reasonable rebloom. The plus for TB is the cane color which, between glauca and Tb, hopefully would be carried forward. My only concern about TB is that with all its species genes, adding another species to the mix might complicate the gene pool. Maybe I’m overly concerned…it wouldn’t hurt to try anyway.

I hadn’t considered bloom period when thinking of parents to use. Thanks for bringing that up. I may have to use your model and cross glauca onto rugosa and then cross seedlings back to glauca or rugosa x glauca cross. Do you know if glauca and TB bloom during the same period?

Thanks again for the advice.

I bought a new summer house this spring and found out that there is a huge Rosa glauca bush growing by the sauna building (practically every house in this country has an own sauna, as some of you may know), which prompted me to do ex tempore pollinations with glauca. I decided to try Ayershire Splendens, Belle Poitevine and Topaz Jewel (a yellow glauca hybrid would be cool) on it, which I think are all diploids and happened to bloom simultaneously. We’ll see what comes out. I have no idea if glauca is prone to self pollination in bud stage, does anybody have experience?

I’m with you Jukka, a yellow glauca hybrid would be very cool.

I love your ideas Paul and Jukka. I got some cuttings of a R. laxa and R. glauca hybrid from Kathy Zuzek. They are under mist now. She got it from High Country Roses when she visited out there. It was part of a hedge. She got some offspring with it. THe direction of the cross wasn’t certain, but hopefully after the cuttings root I can do a chromosome count. R. laxa is pretty disease resistant and repeats a bit.

I suggest trying ‘Therese Bugnet’. I have some very diverse and interesting hybrids of it with polyanthas and other roses as well. Having a complex background can sometimes help a plant serve as a better bridge. You should probably get a lot of interesting segregation among the seedlings as well just because of the diverse background in TB like you noted and I found in my seedlings.

‘Pristine Pavement’ is a white rugosa in the series that has been especially receptive to a wide crosses.

Sincerely,

David

R. laxa and R. glauca hybrid sounds like a great cross David. I can imagine how hardy and disease resistant it must be. Did the glauca foliage color get passed on to the hybrid? I’m glad to hear that you are getting some diversity and interesting hybrids using TB with polyanthas. Are you finding decent repeat bloom with your seedlings when using TB? Based on yours and Paul’s recommendations I will definitely use TB with R. glauca. Thanks for your input David.

Regards,

Rob

Rob,

I planted my TB last spring. I don’t remember it blooming last year and it hasn’t bloomed for me this year. So I can’t say if TB and glauca bloom at the same time or not.

Others have raised the concern about mixing to many species at one time. You may have seen the article by Percy Wright concerning the subject. I posted a link if you haven’t.

Metis is a cross of R.nitida x TB. There have been questions regarding it’s fertility. Some people say it does set hips and others say that it doesn’t. Is the failure to set hips because the genome is too mixed up from all the different species involved or is it from an incompatability of the genes from TB with those from R.nitida. Who knows. I would try the TB x R.glauca anyway. What have you got to loose.

Jukka,

The two R.glauca I have came from seed I purchased on line. They seem to be pure R.glauca, so either there was more than one R.glauca growing near each other or the seeds are from self pollination. Also members of Caninae can produce seeds without being pollinated by a male.

Paul

Link: www.bulbnrose.org/Roses/breeding/Wright/Wright_compatible.html

Rosa acicularis and Rosa californica can have “glaucus” foliage.

Paul,

Thanks for the link to that informative article by Wright. The article contained some great information and made sense. I looked at the ancestral tree for Therese Bugnet and saw that the majority of species blood is three generations or more back so hopefully the genes have "settled down,

Hi Rob,

Kathy has got some very dark purple foliaged hybrids crossing ‘Tournament of Roses’ with this R. laxa/R. glauca hybrid. There are a couple op hips on this R. laxa/R. glauca hybrid which is promising as well to just raise and try to find some offspring with greater fertility. I’m excited to learn what the chromosome count is and someday look at the pollen from it as well. It is a stressed plant now because it was just moved recently with a tree spade from a location that was too wet and it was being stressed there as well. It is starting to send out some nice shoots now and that is what some of the cuttings I stuck last week are from. It has foliage with a nice grey/blue-green look, much like R. glauca.

For the Therese Buget offspring- One of the crosses with a polyantha has amazing rebloom and is actually seedling 2004-03 that won a silver certificate at the American Rose Society American Rose Center (ARC) trial grounds. The others rebloom, but are more sporatic. I think a rose like TB allows us to get great diversity among the offspring- some will be very homely, sterile, or weak, while others will be amazing and have hardiness and ferility. I think it is a great rose and a great resource for breeders. It definately accepts straight rugosa pollen very very well and make rather rugose offspring with them, but it also serves as a nice bridge to some modern classes of roses. It seems like staying at the diploid level allows for crosses to take more easily. I suspect, like others, that R. woodsii is in TB instead of R. acicularis because of TB being diploid and the understanding of Canada planting roses for restoration purposes decades ago they called R. acicularis that may actually be in many instances diploid R. woodsii.

Sincerely,

David

Hello David,

It sounds like you have an exciting seedling to work with in the R. laxa/R. glauca hybrid. Kathy’s result of very dark purple foliage using ‘Tournament of Roses’ with this hybrid is very encouraging. It will be interesting to see what comes of your OP hips currently on the plant. I hope you get some typically glauca colored leaves on resulting seedlings. All of this encourages me to move forward with my plans.

Are there any pics on the net of your 2004-03 seedling that won a silver certificate from the ARC trial grounds? Good luck with this one. Are there any introduction plans for 2004-03 in the future?

Based on its parentage and gene pool, I think you are right that TB allows for great diversity among offspring. I think you put it perfectly that TB serves as a nice bridge to some modern classes of roses. I didn

I have some glauca hybrids I would be willing to share seeds and/or cuttings of. My two glauca seedlings are selections I made having both good foliage color and fertility. You may have to remind me to send them (I don

Hello Joan. You have some great crosses there. I don’t have much luck rooting cuttings but if you have extra seeds of any of the above available I’d love to receive some and would be more than happy to send postage. I would also keep you advised of their progress. I like your use of Westerland. Thank you for the generous offer!

Joan, do your R. glauca x R. pendulina look like the ones you sent to me? Please see link.

I don’t note much blueness to the foliage but again I am in a low desert environment which may not favor development of the the foliage color?

I have OP hips from one of the seedlings for the first time this year.

Any guesses as to the ploidy here? Pollen is apparently fertile as I have at least one resultant seedling. I can share some of this one with you if you get back to hybridizing again.

I’d love some of the R. glauca x Golden Cherseronese.

Thanks, Robert

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=49434

I have two baby r. glauca seedlings that were given to me in spring. Up until last week, they were temporarily growing in pots on the deck placed far away from other roses in the yard. They flowered in their pots with blooms identical to the parent. Pollen released early, and the flowers instantly set hip which I can almost attest is the cause of self-fertilization.

Referring back to Rob’s post, could someone please explain why r. glauca should be crossed with diploid pollen to obtain tetraploid offspring? And how does this happen exactly?

Is r. glauca not tetraploid? What is the chromosome count for this species rose?

R. glauca is part of the caninae section and exhibits uneven meiosis. See link.

It is hoped use of a diploid pollen parent will result in fertile tetraploid offspring.

Link: www.actahort.org/books/690/690_16.htm

Ann,

There are most likely others who could do a better job explaining this than I, but I

This is what I have on my web page:

http://home.neo.rr.com/kuska/carmenetta.htm

Link: home.neo.rr.com/kuska/carmenetta.htm

Just a follow up on the previous post. The bivalents in the paper are chromosomes that pair up. Univalents are the chromosomes that don’t. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that the two chromosomes that are the univalents are always the univalents, never pair up and are never in the pollen. There isn’t any mixing and matching going on.

Paul