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Sempervirens is an underused species that was bred with noisettes and chinas to give many F1 hybrids and no more even if many are fertile. Excepted Marthe Caron progeny by Meilland.
One can wonder why! The species, that is native here southern France, naturally grows strongly very close to the ground (or over shrubs and even trees) and is no more bothered by desease than the best that is wichuraiana. High tolerance to dry and alcaline soils is another plus.
I sowed it four years ago and using its pollen in mixes I grow a few multispecies hybrids.
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Very beautifull indeed and allmost in the same league as Alberic Barbier, the Banks or La Folette that in mediterranean climate at least are able once established to build up for centuries to gigantic size in abandoned gardens.
Combining it with the more reccurent ground cover roses as it is naturally wide low growing unsuported. Why not diploid The Fairy for fertile progeny.
Carefree Marvel is part Rosa sempervirens. I dont know what it is about Carefree Marvel that makes it more pleasing than Flower Carpet but in roses like Alba Meidiland one can see how well Rosa semp. lends in terms of grace and aesthetic. I probably would not go the The Fairy route because of mildew and prickle issues but I do agree that a dwarf diploid type would be a nice combination.
One of the references states that this rose is R. semp x one of the chinas. If that is true then getting a smaller repeater should not be that difficult.
As I see it: Carefree Marvel shows very little if any sempervirens influence. CM is in the Flower Carpet league and I see it as not different from a selected FC OP seedling.
Also CM behave as a triploid with reduced seedling amount plus average seedling fertility and is not healthier than FC here (trying conditions) where its performance is consistently inferior to The Fairy. The later not desease free but consistently building up when here CM or FC do not.
I for me if there is a more promising venue do no longer search recessive and fertile seedlings in a cross involving a triploid.
I agree that getting a smaller repeater from Ad
Hi Pierre,
They landscape differently. FC is very stiff and lacks the aesthetic CM does, which was my specific point. My point was not about Carefree Marvel itself but rather the idea that Rosa sempervirens may lend some positive traits to modern roses. My overall point is that Rosa sempervirens has qualities that the other eurasian ramblers do not. And my final point was that crossing two mildew prone types would be a bad idea but that there could be other dwarf diploids that could help Rosa semperviren hybrids ward of the mildew issue. Trust me when I say I am not going to waste the time of either of us on debating the breeding qualities or perceptions of Carefree Marvel itself. It would be about as useful as comparing Oregon, USA to France.
If I had AdO I would try it against either Mutabilis or Plaisanterie and Laevigata (with the idea of trying to keep or enhance the evergreen aspect).
Yeah, I was interested in Robert’s perspective of it as a breeder for his goals.
I had ‘Adelaide d’Orleans’ for several seasons and finally gave it to Sequoia. Here it was was not a reliable bloomer. I found the growth habit undesirable.
It could be I couldn’t give it the space it needed to perform. It wanted to get huge and rambled over and through everything which I found very annoying. The prickles were nasty.
It was a very tough rose and regenerated from the roots at least three times.
If I had the patience to utilize it I would probably combine it with better diploid polyanthas and miniatures to see if I could could bring the size down and improve the growth habit.
These semervirens ramblers are amazing. Here in inland mountain valleys one can see some century old densely covering big house facades to the third floor. Quite spectacular when blooming. Much tougher than wichuraiana ramblers a group the even tougher but less spectacular blooming Alberic Barbier does not fit in my opinion.
“The prickles were nasty.”
Ah…