A regional approach to rose hybridizing

I ran across a listing of Ralph Moore’s roses on the Aggie Horticulture Site. I noticed that a number of these roses have been rated blackspot prone. Since many here on the forum are more familiar with Ralph Moore’s hybridzing work than I am it makes me wonder how these perform in other areas of the country. I am located 75 miles from Texas A&M so their studies are relevant to me. Here is a list of the roses listed as Blackspot prone.

Albuquerque Enchantment

Charlie Brown

Climbing Angel Pink

Diamond Anniversary

Halo Glory

Hoot Owl

Julie Link

Just For You

Lovely Lorrrie

Magic Carrousel

Patriot Song

Precious Dream

Rise N Shine

Sequoia Gold

Snow Twinkle

Tangerine Jewel

Link: http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/rose/index.html

Joan, I think if you check their parentages, as with many of his roses, you’re going to find a lot of Anytime, Little Darling, Angel Farce and some Bracteata behind them. Unfortunately, all the stripes came from Ferdinand Pichard which was TERRIBLE for me in Newhall and Encino, and all of them contain healthy doses of Little Darling.

His Bracteata hybrids, except for Out of Yesteryear and Out of the Night were also very prone to rust in both gardens. This is why I polled Paul Barden, Burling, Laurie Chaffin and local rose growing friends to determine which have been the cleanest and produced the cleanest offspring for them before I began selecting roses to continue playing with in the new climate where it’s much more of a coastal influence. We’ve been socked in to a “June Gloom” situation for the majority of spring, with just a few days hitting 97, until this Wednesday, when it’s expected to hit 100. Today is quite over cast with almost drizzle. It just be a whole 65 outside right now. Lovely.

See what you can find out about Gene Strawn’s Pink Petticoat where you are. It’s rudely healthy here in Encino and topped several lists for resistance to everything. Oddly, Cal Poly topped lists, too, but is rusting like an old nail for me. Kim

Thanks Kim, my next task is to determine if there are common parents on this list. While there are some roses that transcend various climates, there are many that are superstars in specific climates. Today it is 100 degrees in the shade 15 days in a row and we are in the middle of a drought.

Some roses I grow for specific conditions, such as Perle de Jardin which balls in the spring, but blooms nicely during droughts.

I really like the “EarthKind” Program that is gaining popularity in many states because it evaluates roses in divergent areas.

As much as I would like to I cannot grow peonies and lilacs here, there are also some roses that just don’t thrive here.

I can’t say on most of these but in my climate blackspot is not an issue most of the time and Rise ‘n’ shine still gets it.

I would agree with most of that list with one exception: ‘Precious Dream’ is practically indestructible here. It does not Rust, Mildew nor Blackspot, which is remarkable in my climate. Regional indeed!

I have a large selection of the Moore hybrids and I would say that 90% of them must be sprayed to maintain their health. 5% copes with modest amounts of disease, and about 5% thrive without any preventative spraying. In that last five per cent is: ‘Cal Poly’, ‘Apricot Twist’, ‘Magic Wand’, ‘Blue Mist’, and ‘Swedish Doll’, to name a few that come immediately to mind. I am sure there are others I am forgetting, but these are definite standouts as regards health in this PNW climate, where springs can be prolonged and wet.


Rose Gilardi and Shadow Dancer are probably the most outstanding from Moore in my garden. SD only has one flaw, which is an awkward habit. I just whack it down and let it pretend to be a back-border shrub.

“Region” is one of the reasons I’m sticking with OGRs. They’re pretty bullet-proof here. Modern roses have more or less to be planted as annuals; the only one that is sure to come back every year in my garden is ‘Chicago Peace,’ which dies back to the ground every winter. I have a bunch of Moore minis that I collected for a border, but none of them are happy here.

Over the last few days, I’ve also more or less decided to concentrate on Moss Roses. In the last couple of years we’ve been invaded by those awful beetles (like Japanese beetles without white spots) and the only roses that seem to be able to hold their own against them are the mosses.

I’ve noticed in later years that winters seem to be alternating between severely dry and infuriatingly wet. Last year was a dry year and R. multiflora and all its descendants really suffered. ‘Veilchenblau’ and ‘Bleu Magenta’ both died back to the roots, and are now growing back up their trellises like mad things. Even R. glauca died back, which it’s never done before. Alas, the regions themselves seem to be changing.

Still, no blackspot or rust here… yet…

Jadae reminded me about ‘Rose Gilardi’, which is also a standout in my experience.


Do you have the mini’Green Ice’?

It grows well for me and has no

problems with the cold or black spot here in NE.

I just wish it was better at making pollen. It never stops blooming or growing.


Daniel, I had ‘Green Ice,’ but alas, it didn’t last. I either paid too much attention to it, or too little.

Jadae, ‘Rose Gilardi’ grows like a bandit here, so I’m going to try to do more with it.


Green Ice grows quite well here in Central Texas, no black spot and with the proper amount of water, no defoliation. However, you are right it does not produce an abundance of pollen.

Last night I did some research on parentage of the list of Blackspot prone roses and found a few common parents: Gold Badge, Orangeade, Yellow Magic and Little Darling.

From a hybridizing perspective I don’t know that I would rule out using some of these roses, in particular Rise N Shine. Last year before it gave up the ghost it managed to set a hip. The pollen parent was Miss Bloomsalot a rose by Ray Ponton (Paloma Blanca X Hippolyte) X Baby Love.

Two nice seedlings germinated from this cross one a semi-double yellow and the other a single peach bloom on a dainty little bush. This second plant is a nice bushy plant, no blackspot, and is now setting buds for the 7th bloom cycle. I was so excited about this second seedling that a collected the pollen and put on Shockwave and today it appears a hip is setting.

While I doubt the commercial appeal of this rose I am happy to have something new to add to my breeding stock.

Even with Rise N Shine being one of my worst roses it has bred some beautiful plants. I got some Rise N Shine x L83 that are absolutely gorgeous foliage wise. Hopefully the flowers are half what the plants are. I think unless their is some serious deficiencies in the flower I will keep several of these to breed with. Rise N Shine seedlings at least vegetativly tend to be affected greatly by the other parent. I also got some new seedings with R. foliosa and cornelia as pollen parents and they learn more towards these than Rise N Shine plant wise.

Fara I have to agree on Rose Gilardi. It is such a wonderful grower here in Colorado.

While I am sure that by some miraculous force it would be possible to get a healthy plant out of ‘Rise ‘N’ Shine’, I have yet to meet a seedling from it that didn’t Blackspot. I would absolutely not use ‘Little Darling’ in breeding anymore for the same reason, nor ‘Orangeade’. However, I have found certain second gen hybrids out of ‘Orangeade’ that have the ability to pass on excellent disease resistance, most notably Kim’s ‘Orangeade’ X R. fedtschenkoana. It also tends to generate seedlings with very matte, blueish foliage that smell like Pine when handled. Remarkable.


PS: Kudos on the L83 hybrid, Adam. In spite of dire warnings about L83 creating plants prone to Cercospora, I have not had that problem in my climate (which is surprising, as we get Cercospora a lot). I would say that nearly half of all seedlings from L83 have exceptional health and great vigor.

I am sure you are probably right Paul. If I had more blackspot pressure in my area I would probably see some on these seedlings.

My main issue is PM. And these compared to Rise N Shine are excellent and with little blackspot I have yet to see this on them but I have seen it on Rise N Shine. But again it is far less blackspot than most of you see and far more PM. And the vigor you talk about is definitely there.

I am hoping these seedlings are good enough breeding wise and decent enough flower that I can use them and not Rise N Shine.


I think you can be fairly certain that the health traits you are seeing have come not from ‘Rise ‘N’ Shine’ but from L83. :wink: