3/4 native tetraploid 1/4 Hybrid Tea

First I’ll repost the foliage shot, which I’d posted in another thread. This is:

(‘Fragrant Cloud’ x Rosa carolina) X Rosa virginiana

Here’s the first bloom starting to open…

And fully open…

Tom, nice result. Is it also fragrant?

Hi George,


While it’s not as strongly fragrant as its mother [‘Fragrant Cloud’ X carolina is VERY strongly old-rose fragrant] it does have a good bit of the old-rose fragrance mixed with something fruity maybe.

It’s only about knee high and surrounded by weeds about the same height, so I had a hard time getting in to photograph and smell it. It was worth the effort though! I’m really happy with this one. Now to get repeat bloom into something like this…


maybe it will set op hips…and give you a few repeater selfs!! I can see why you are so proud of it, so far.

Very cool Tom!

I love the foliage. Hopefully it will prove fertile and you can move it along!

Jim Sproul

Nice foliage and double blooms in a modern tone. Thats a pretty good outcome.

Fragrant Cloud contains Peace, Fandango, Floradora and likely a reddish HT of some sort. I am guessing some mixture similar to what was used in Tropicana.

The flowers are impressive for being 3/4 species. I also like the foliage. I do not know much about the two species used. How similar or different are they? hopefully this plant will be fertile for you.

God, that’s very attractive Tom, especially since it’s mainly native rose! All it takes is the right cross…I like the foliage. I’m not so usually sold on pinks of that shade, I like mine a bit more crimson/purple/magenta or pastel/shell pink, but I think you could really work with that…it’s very marketable color and so far it seems, could further produce something special.

Gee maybe cross that with Kim Rupert’s pink triploid shrub rose ‘Lynnie’ (would that be possible, a triploid x tetraploid?) and you might get some good rebloom out of those crosses.

Maryland is blackspot hell and so far ‘Lynnie’ in terms of vigor and health here has surprised me, I’m trying to think if I’ve seen any blackspot yet on it and I don’t think I have and despite its hot-pink color it’s fast becoming one of my favorites and has been weaseling its way into breeding plans and schemes.

It has carolina, moschata and rugosa rubra in its background through it’s parent ‘Baye’s Legacy’ and, health-wise, could be a good plant to sire healthier repeat shrubs in the vein of ‘Knockout’ MINUS thorns, plus added fertility, and more ornamental hips than ‘Knockout’ has. Young band-sized plants of ‘Lynnie’ also bloom rather young as well, an added desirable trait for nursery trade.

If you have access to ‘Lynnie’ might be worth giving it a shot.

That’s the first thing that came to my mind for you to breed it with into getting what you’re looking for. Could work perhaps?


Firstly, thanks to all of you for sharing in my excitement.

George, you’re thinking along the same lines that I am… except to test whether it could produce any repeaters I’m currently putting ‘Carefree Sunshine’ pollen on it. If any are repeaters they’d be awfully close to half native.

Jim, Jadae, and Adam, actually the foliage was what I was most happy about [and the suckering too - I know, call me crazy ;0)] but when a few of the blooms opened, I was pleasantly surprised. I had expected they’d be a lot more like the species - single and medium to light pink. Adam, the carolina clone I used was collected in West Virginia and is a pale pink single with fairly narrow petals. It suckers some, but not nearly as enthusiastically as the virginiana’s do. It also differs from them in that it blooms at the tips of new canes, in addition to the bloom on last years wood. This makes it a different sort of repeat bloomer, although F1 with Hybrid Tea doesn’t repeat in any way. The virginiana was a medium pink single, I received from Roger Mitchell. He said it was purchased from Heirloom Roses as R. virginiana “Harvest Song”. It’s a quite a bit bristlier and the foliage is more shiny than even the local virginiana’s and definitely more so than carolina (which has matte foliage). Both of these species are fairly low growing and healthy. It’s unusual for them to get above waist high.

Max, I’ll bet you can especially appreciate the fact that this one keeps all of its leaves here in Maryland. Thanks for the suggestion of Kim’s “Lynnie”. I haven’t grown that one yet.

Thanks again all. I let you know how the hip set turns out.



That is a very interesting plant, indeed. Its a surprise just how glossy the foliage is!

Forgive me if I am just being blind, but I don’t see any mention whether or not you have witnessed it setting OP seed. Does it? Have you considered measuring the pollen grains to get an idea of its ploidy? This would be interesting to know. Would you consider distributing samples of pollen so other RHA folks could try it on their breeders?

By the way, I might have a spare band sized plant of ‘Lynnie’, and if I do, I will gladly send it to you. Lemme know.


Thanks Paul. Yeah, the seed parent ('Fragrant Cloud X carolina) has foliage much closer to carolina - nearly matte with tiny hairs on the surface. So virginiana has definitely put its stamp on the hybrid in its shiny foliage.

I don’t know about OP seed yet for this one since this is the maiden bloom. I’m assuming that it’s a tetraploid because ‘Fragrant Cloud’, carolina and virginiana should all be. I will surely be willing to send pollen but I think that might have to wait until next year since it’s almost done blooming already - I didn’t get a chance to post right away and there weren’t a lot of blooms.

Thanks for the offer of the ‘Lynnie’ but I’m about maxed out right now with trying to get caught up with the routine chores (weeding, planting seedlings, etc.) and promised myself I wouldn’t take on any new stuff yet. It sure is tempting though.

I’ll contact you off-line and let you know if I can find any straggler blooms to collect pollen from.

Thanks, Tom

Hi guys,

Here’s a picture that shows the foliage of this seedling’s seed parent (‘Fragrant Cloud’ X carolina). This is also the seed parent of the ‘Carefree Sunshine’ offspring that I posted recently, garden-named “MR1”.

Here’s a close-up of the bloom of that same seed parent, (‘Fragrant Cloud’ X carolina).

Tom, I could collect some Lynnie pollen for you, you’re in Maryland as well? I have an extra plant too, I could dig it up and mail it to you when the weather isn’t as hot.

I’ve never really collected pollen successfully before though, always just use my finger from flower to flower. Does one just collect the anthers and put them in like a baby food jar or Tupperware? I’ve used plastic bags before but that didn’t seem to work as well.

  • Max

I use small, clear glasses – shot glasses are a decent example.

Hey Max, I bought some small containers at an art supply/hobby shop that are clear plastic with a lid. They are about the diameter of a quarter and are about an inch high. They are designed for storing paint, but have been great for pollen. I keep the lid off for the first day or so until the anthers are dry.


I reckon that’s pretty impressive for HT x species! Maybe this is why Dr Basye was using carolina? It seems to ‘blend’ well with things.

Yeah, some species tend to translate better than others in terms of passing on some more modern traits. Rosa wichurana, Rosa virginiana and Rosa carolina seem to do this rather well.