Yes, I believe bumblebees and roses are the better off for not reading those studies!
I think there is some merit to that Philip. As Ralph always said, “Roses can’t read!”. As you said, telling someone they can’t do something often does inhibit creativity and exploration. Go for it and good luck!
Okay, I think I’m leaning towards trying to acquire
William Allen Richardson
Yellow Fairy (If I can find it)
Crepuscule
And ‘Helen Hayes’ looks like an intriguing one which I had never before heard of. Anyone know more about her?
Also,
1-72-1 and
Cal-Poly and
Baby Love need to figure into my stock – ploidy of these illiterate roses notwithstanding.
David M., I’m guessing you had posted at the same time I was posting, and I never saw your post above. Years ago I had wondered about “reinventing the wheel” by starting all over with other yellow species (primarily in the pimpernellifoliae) in hopes of avoiding the Foetida disease issues, but eventually realized that life is a little too short to try and go there. It’s an interesting history when one looks into the color yellow in roses, but ultimately, I’ve decided I will never within my lifetime get a good strong yellow without using Foetida ancestry, and after many generations of crosses, several of today’s yellows ain’t all that bad. I nonetheless still want to go after a new line of yellows, even if foetida lies somewhere back there…
Thanks all!
Philip,
I can offer you an established plant of 1-72-1 if you don’t want to deal with rooting cuttings. (No offense, Kim!)
Helen Hayes is a favorite here. It has very nice shaped blooms with a color that reminds me of the Pernetianas. The color changes depending on the temperatures too. Closest photos on hmf to what I see are these: 'Helen Hayes' Rose Photo 'Helen Hayes' Rose Photo 'Helen Hayes' Rose Photo and 'Helen Hayes' Rose Photo. The foliage is dark and glossy and fairly free of disease (does get BS like everything else here but does significanlty better than most). It has a good scent, has good hardiness and very, very few thorns (I think last year I counted something like 15 total thorns for the whole plant). Mostly solitary blooms in the spring but forms candelabras in the summer up to about 10 or so at the most. Sets OP hips if you let it - I don’t know about the germination rate as I have never actually gotten around to collecting them. My plant shows definite mosaic virus pattern on it but it is so vigorous and free blooming that I live with the “variegated” leaves in the spring and have no plans on removing it (until I get around to getting a better plant of it). I believe UC Davis has virus indexed material available. Overall, Helen Hayes is a very, very lovely rose and I think it can add a lot to anyone’s breeding program. Its descendant Dr. Brownell is similarly nice but with more apricot-yellow 'Dr. Brownell' Rose Photo tones and into some warmer, fleshy pinks 'Dr. Brownell' Rose Photo in the cooler weather.
None taken, Paul. Chateau LaSalle was a beautiful medium yellow which faded relatively quickly, on a decent plant in the old garden. It definitely has a strong dose of Foetida, but if the climate is arid and warm enough, it’s a lovely garden rose.
How does Reve d’Or do in passing on its color? I just recently got a nicely rooted cutting of it and if I can figure out a way to get it through an Iowa winter want to use it on a few things here. It says it is “quite hardy” so I’ll translate that to mean give it protection in Iowa until established - maybe some cold will keep it in bounds. It seems to be a very popular Tea-Noisette based on the comments I see on hmf. Looks to be fertile, vigorous, and disease resistant.
Re: 'Reve d’Or
I never got a yellow seedling from it, ever. In all crosses I put its pollen on modern deep yellow minis with proven breeding abilities. All seedlings mildewed like crazy.,
As this is also a yellow thread and from what I can read from Don’s post earlier yellow is hard to obtain a solid, non fading one. Of the one’s listed here and in this thread,
http://www.rosebreeders.org/forum/read.php?2,41595,41595#msg-41595,
Some are available here in Oz. Can anyone here tell/explain to me why I cannot go backwards with modernish yellows to the earliest of yellows. Is there any ‘laws’ with breeding roses that says you can’t go backwards. I just think there might be one more spoke in the wheel that needs adding, I know I am mad or what we call “barking up the wrong tree”. But you never know I might get the allusive “Holy Grail” .
David,
Of course you can go “backwards.” It has been suggested a number of times on here. Remember with some of the good crosses of the past, the hybridizers had to work with what was available. You might try repeating the crosses substituting one of the more modern roses in the cross.
Jim P
Thanks JimP, I read here quite often the crosses people have made and discarded for one or another reason. My thinking is we are still trying to work out with some certainity what will come from a pre-determined cross. So what have or might we have missed since the first crossings of the foetidas or persiana for instance. That is my reasoning of back tracking.
Hey Dave that is what I have been doing in the last 2yrs, using old HT’s and other cultivars, (eg) Mme Carolins Testou, Lyon Rose and Ophelia. There are a few more, I draw the line at Gallica’s , Bourbon’s and Damask’s, I got sick and tired of the Mildew and BS. What you have to be aware is that a lot of roses bred around 1920 onwards had a lot of Foetida in them, and when using them today , must be put across very healthy sound roses .
I’d like to see more non-foetida persian briars and their hybrids used more. Easier said than done, obviously.
This is a yelow which I developed a few years back, Charles Austin X Smooth Buttercup. This is the actual colour of the bloom and the plant grows to over 6ft high. JimP this was one of my attemps to get thornless roses, but this one is loaded with them. It also sets hips and could need some petals, the colour I call Egg Yolk yellow. Health wise nothing seems to worry it and the repeat is good. Will be used as a breeder.
[attachment 489 30E101F.jpg]
This is Safrano X Gold Bunny
[attachment 541 SafXGB.jpg]
I breed some of my seedlings backwards last year and have some germinating. There’s something to be said about seedlings that grow four ft. tall in two years, with problems, and I’ll worry about the flower later. Neil