Vegetative centers

Several of this season’s very nice seedlings have turned up with vegetative centers. Is this something that may change (go away) as the plant matures? I noticed that one seedling that had a vegetative center in the first blossom did not in the second.

Thank you for your input!

This common when you use OGRs as brood stock. Some times it persist, sometimes not.

Thanks, Ron. Are there any OGRs (or other roses) that you would especially recommend staying away from? Also, would you suggest that an otherwise excellent seedling be kept for next year’s bloom cycle if the only real problem seems to be a vegetative center?

I noticed that my “Glamis Castle” has a bloom with a vegetative center. Can this kind of problem appear sporadically (perhaps depending on weather and other conditions)? Just trying to get a sense of how to work with these seedlings. . . .

Thank you!

Hi Robert:

Yes, vegetative centers can come and go on the same seedling depending on conditions. Some seedlings will always have them. Also, those where they come and go tend to pass along that trait.

A seedling that otherwise has excellent traits should be kept in my opinion.

Jim Sproul

I have learned from Wilhelm Kordes II : (way back in 1971!)

If the first bloom on a new seedling has a vegetative centre you will always have “Vegetative centers”. Only the odd bloom may be OK.

I have had a few over the last 35 years but never kept one, therefore I can not confirm this.

George Mander

R. roxburghii is famous for vegetative blooms and it’s considered a positive quality.

More than specific “species” or varieties, it appears to be a function of crossing plants with widley disparate genetic backgrounds.

I have a Rugosa magnificaXBaron Girod d’la’Ain that blooms vegetativley. It’s attractive when the blooms are close enough together. When theres a fresh flower growing out of an old blasted flower, it doesnt look so good.

Thanks to each of you for the input! On some of the seedlings, the vegetative center looks fine–not necessarily a big drawback. Is a vegetative center viewed as a definite negative by the “rose world” in general, or is this judgment a matter of each individual seedlings combined characteristics?

Again, thank you!

Personally, I think small vegetative centers on old style roses look great as long as they are consistant in size. I have two seedlings, one a creamsicle orange colored seedling out of Sonia, and the other from Bonica that would not look as nice without that green eye. Of course, it makes it difficult to use them for breeding stock.

For hybrid tea form blooms however, I can’t imagine a scenario in which it would be a desireable trait.